Freeper Breaks Foam Problem Story at FR First!!!

Freerepublic ^ | 4/1/03 | Freepers

[Jael]

Freeper Enlightiator broke the foam story here on Freerepublic many long hous before the media ever touched it. Please read his gracious post regarding his scoop.

Also hat's off to leadpenny for the original Columbia observation thread.

In Memory of The COlumbia

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/833885/posts?q=1&&page=51

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#368: Astronauts doomed from the start  ^
To: Jael; Prov1322; Lancey Howard; McGruff; kattracks

All the credit goes to the guy who found out first!!! Enlightiator!!! I just did a few more google searches and got a tad more information. The original link at the NASA site no longer works. (The one that documents the problems with the foam breaking off and hitting the tiles.)

Thanks for the credit Jael, that was admirable on your part to take the time to link to my original post, but you did the most thorough job. Giving credit for "first source" isn't something the mass media often does, especially when they get their story ideas from sites like FreeRepublic!

I consider the Greg Katnik NASA article finding a group effort, starting with Prov1322's initial post Very close-up, slo-mo of the Columbia launch debris. which caught my attention and started my initial research (flash video no longer up unfortunately), through the far more excellent detailed posts you have made in this thread. [By the way, I have discovered that the reason you couldn't reach my link to NASA engineer Greg Katnick's article "Working on a Tile Damage Mystery (in which significant tile damage due to external tank insulation debris was found on Columbia's flight STS-87 in late 1997) was because I accidently linked to his bio instead of the article, which you fortunately managed to find again yourself and post in this thread. Interestingly, I first found the alternate link you posted in this thread, http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2121/used_news.htm, but searched a little more to find the "official" nasa link. We must both use Google.]

So, WE Freepers broke this story about Katnick's NASA article first, on 2/1/2003 on Freerepublic at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/834139/posts?page=54#54.

As best as I can tell, this did not make the major news until the following two articles:

* Orlando Sentinel's Bob Shaw and Michael Cabbage wrote the article Foam chunks a problem since 1981. This was posted at www.orlandosentinel.com on Monday, 2/3/2003, however the same article with the title Fuel-tank insulation capable of causing `incredible damage' is at www.centredaily.com, a PA newspaper, with the post date 2/2/2003.

* John Kelly's 2/3/2003 Florida Today article NASA's debris experts have been working on foam issue for years . This was posted at Freerepublic by McGruff at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/835049/posts.

Since that time, a Google news search shows Katnik's name all over the place, this story is really spreading. On 2/4/2003, The NY Times James Glanz and Edward Wong's article " '97 Report Warned of Foam Damaging Tiles-Absence of Freon Led to Detachment of Foam" also fell in line to make Greg Katnik a bit famous, as kattracks posted a link to at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/835505/posts.

But remember, we posted it here at FreeRepublic first!.

In my original post, I noted that Katnick had written an article. It was on a NASA educational site for students, and its obvious its the same source the big guys used -did they get it from FreeRepublic, or did they do their own search?; The news guys turned it into a "report," and the Orlando Sentinel provided this clarification just yesterday, 1/4/2003:

NASA worker: '97 damage report was 'embellished' by writer, By Anthony Colarossi, Sentinel Staff Writer. Posted February 4, 2003

The NASA engineer credited with writing a sharply critical 1997 report about damage to heat-resistant tiles on the space shuttle Columbia said Monday that the report had actually been ghostwritten by another NASA writer.

But Greg Katnik, a shuttle engineer who led the team that inspected the Columbia in December 1997, stood by the accuracy of the report. The report said more than 300 of the shuttle's fragile tiles had been damaged by foam insulation that fell off its external fuel tank during liftoff from Kennedy Space Center.

The report, which summarized a formal 76-page inspection analysis that Katnik had submitted to NASA, also said that more than 100 of Columbia's tiles had to be replaced and called the damage to the shuttle "significant."

But Katnik, a 20-year employee of Kennedy Space Center, said his formal analysis had been summarized and "embellished" by a NASA writer for NASA Quest, an agency-run Web site aimed at schoolchildren.

"I don't write that way either for kids or adults," he said. "I think he [the writer] was trying to make it dramatic for the kids.

"It wasn't meant to sound that dire," he added.

Katnik pointed to passages on the Web site describing a "massive" loss of insulating foam from the external fuel tank.

He said the NASA ghostwriter had accurately summarized the facts in his report -- which was not filed until February 1998 -- but had made the language more conversational. For example, his conclusion that the number of damaged tiles was "out of family" was changed to read, "the extent of the damage at the conclusion of this mission was not 'normal.' "

He said the NASA writer had turned his customarily "dry" technical language into something "that is more or less a detective story." It was intended to be an example of "how engineering is used to detect and fix a problem," he said.

The report was first cited in a story in Monday's Orlando Sentinel. The newspaper's attempts to reach him for comment Sunday had been unsuccessful.

On Monday, after receiving numerous calls from reporters, Katnik was given clearance by his NASA supervisors to answer questions.

Anthony Colarossi can be reached at acolarossi@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-6218

368 posted on 02/04/2003 10:35 PM CST by Enlightiator (Still researching....)

[Black Agnes]

Actually, I think it was this guy. Might want to email him this thread.

Huntsville Times News Article

[Jael]

Actually I'm a she. :-)

[Black Agnes]

YES! This is the guy!!!

John Anderson, Political Columnist, Huntsville Times

Hope he isn't a Goron.

[Jael]

Actually, the Freeper broke the story of the foam, and the "enviroment friendly" issue. No one is for sure what caused the accident.

In honor of the memory of the Seven, all the facts should be known. Not just what the liberal media will tell you.

[Black Agnes]

Well, you see, you're 'technical minded' and posted 'geeky stuff' so you must be a guy! See how that works? :)

[Jael]

I agree. There are good people at NASA. But there are also people who will try to CYA. Look at Challenger.

[Jael]

It wasn't me that broke the story, so your callous remarks are not needed or wanted. Thanks.

[backhoe]

Thanks for looking.

[Constitution Day]

Actually I'm a she. :-)

OOPS!
Normally I am adept at telling the difference.

My apologies, ma'am. :)

[Jael]

I am going to email him.

There is also a guy here in Birmingham who might touch it.

Thanks so much, you have been so helpful. :-)

[Hildy]

They weren't even meant to be callous...I always thought it was funny when I heard it, but then again, I was 10 the last time I heard it! :)

[Black Agnes]

I just emailed him. Freepmail me an email and I'll send you a copy of what I sent. Maybe if he gets it from several people he'll be more likely to look at it. :)

[Jael]

Thanks! But really, the guy who first found the info is the one who got me interested. (Enlightiator)

I try to post from NASA sources and other printed material to make sure things are right, so it's really not that I am a techie, although I wish I was.

I actually worked in politics. :-)

This event hits home for a couple of reason. We are members of the Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville, and it looks like the foam call was made at Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville.

Also, my uncle works at Michoud.

[Willie Green]

No one is for sure what caused the accident.

Coulda fooled me.
The Foamheads have been almost as fanaticly focused as the "Medicinal" Hempsters.

[Black Agnes]

Ah. I'm a scientist. One of my relatives is a PhD physicist that worked on the tile program. He clued us into the early damage and possible cause of the whole thing early Sat morning. In fact, he had been tracking it as he does all the shuttle re-entries. He called because he knew the first thing *I* would think of was Stinger missile attack. He called to tell me that it was at 200K ft and not terrorism. *LOL*. We have a very geeky family, lots of scientist types.

The bee in my bonnet with this is not wanting the (liberal) press to drop the EPA regs as part of a cause if tile damage from the foam hit is determined as a reason. All these EPA regs (the 'silly' ones) have been sold as 'no consequences' to humanity. In science, there are always tradeoffs. Informed tradeoffs are better than blind dogmatically obedient ones.

[fooman]

Would be interested to know what your phd thinks about the emerging evidence.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the kudos! Hugs!

[Black Agnes]

Haven't talked to him since the weekend. I'll see if I can contact him. He's probably busy and working overtime now.

[Tunehead54]

The formula was changed around 1996/1997 to make it more "environmentally friendly." I'm sure that no consideration was given to manned space flight safety when this happened.

---

They yanked the freon to save the ozone layer. The ice would only form UNDERNEATH the insulating layer if the insulation had already come "unglued" - compared to the billions of A/C units using freon WHATEVER the shuttle used would be akin to peeing in the ocean - and putting our guys and gals with the right stuff at risk for no reason. Sigh.

[Jael]

I emailed him too, have not heard anything. He lives and works in Huntsville, where MSFC is. I doubt he will try and follow up. MSPC is the one who is responsible fr the foam and the follow up on the formula investigations. He peobably doesn't want to make the home folks mad. So many people depend on the jobs there.

I may email the guy in Birmingham who has been covering the story. I think his name is Kenneth Faulk.