Columbia Was Beyond Any Help, Officials Say

New York Times ^ | 2/03/03 | KENNETH CHANG

[justshe]

You know.....I WISH you two would get your stories straight. First...it is this Don Nelson memo proves that NASA was culpable. THEN......just tonight on another thread, you were saying that the only reason you brought up the Don Nelson memo was to let everyone know it was out there and to give FR a heads up:

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Fred stated: I believe Todd posted the Don Nelson letter as documention that a 36 year NASA engineer wrote a letter to President Bush not too many months ago, pleading for attention at what he perceived were lapses at NASA. I believe he provided this alert on Saturday evening with the intent to prepare us for the onslaught which was to come on Monday. He was correct.

TLB provided an alert to FR and its readers to the fact that the Don Nelson letter was out in the public domain. To accuse TLB of throwing a smear at the president is a despicable tactic.

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And NOW we're back to the ORIGINAL claim.

If you're going to spin.....PLEASE stick to ONE story.

[Chad Fairbanks]

ohoh... don't start THAt again LOL

[Tall_Texan]

It seems so unlike NASA to not have contingency plans for nearly any possibility. I'm really surprised, not by the fact that they didn't consider the problem that serious and were caught unawares but, that even if they *were* aware, that they had no plan to save the crew.

Let's hypothesize that a shuttle goes up and a very serious flaw is detected. Let's say it bumps a meteor and incurs a serious gash. The craft is still stable but a section of the wing and the heat-resistant tiles are clearly damaged. Are they trying to tell us that they have no backup plan *at all*??

When they went to the moon, took their first spacewalk, etc., they knew they were pushing the envelope and could run into a catastrophe with loss of life because they were taking risks that had never been taken before. But this was something they'd sent up dozens of times and I would have assumed they would have anticipated this situation happening *sometime* and come up with a backup plan. Otherwise, what were they thinking sending up teachers and congressmen, poster children for diversity and the sort? Seems darned irresponsible for them to send up a ship that they can't retrieve if it gets anything beyond minimal damage.

You can criticize all you want about the whistleblowers who complain about cutting corners on safety regs but, it doesn't cost money to have contingency plans in place should an event happen which the odds say was going to happen at some point. What I'm learning is that NASA had none for this and that's as startling to discover as the ship itself disintegrating on Saturday.

[strela]

Y'know, there are some Freepers that are extremely knowledgeable about the capabilities of the US space program. Some even work or have worked in the industry. Meanwhile, there are others who have never worked in the industry and know only what they have read or researched on the topic.

Having said that, I feel that it is counterproductive for some to react as defensively and dismissively as they sometimes seem to toward questions and comments by the latter, for the simple reason that every American is a stakeholder of sorts in the space program and has a direct financial interest in it (that is, if you pay taxes).

It is not a requirement to be a rocket scientist to ask questions and make suppositions about this horrible tragedy, and you do not have to have a working knowledge of orbital mechanics in order to hold an opinion on the subject. To paraphrase Sen. William Smith, the committee chairman of the government inquest into the Titanic disaster, "How do you trained, professional mariners and seamen manage to keep doing this sort of thing?"

[Balata]

Well Fred, they say they didn't see it until the next day. My point is if they don't have the ability to see it and evaluate it in real time then they can't ensure a perfect takeoff which they need due to not having a back up.

[Diddle E. Squat]

Not taking a position on either topic, just pointing out the logical inconsistency.

But I am adament that Don Nelson be allowed to coach the Mavericks.

[John Jamieson]

There is about 32 seconds more broken up data. Probably from a badly tumbling orbiter.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Well, he can coach teh mavericks as long as he keeps his mitts off the space program...

[Howlin]

We could probably get in cheap now, don't you think?

[woofie]

You mean hindsight it 20/20?

[Howlin]

LOL @ the cars.

[bonesmccoy]

such a shield would not be "reusable".

Ablative shields were used on manned capsules prior to orbiter.

The issue is not the TPS fragility.

The issue is why did a piece of the ET insulation fall off the ET.

[Lancey Howard]

I should be issued a parachute and a spare plane with me carry-on when I travel commercial next time.

LOL, buy your own.
As for me, you won't see me getting on any plane.

[woofie]

Watch out for that stock Martha Stewart gave me a hot tip on it weeks ago

[mercy]

Our space program is a joke.

The shuttle is a dog.

The undeniable fact is the Astronauts have a one in fifty chance of being blown to bits.

Krauthamer is right.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

We could probably get in cheap now, don't you think?

Oh....for sure. It's worth lookng into. ; *)

[Doohickey]

I believe it called "a point of no return".

Now, let's say that the LEM goes down to the moon, lands hard and causes one of the lander legs to buckle. For this reason, the two occupants can't return to the command module in the ascent stage. They're, in effect, stranded.

What do you suppose the backup plan was?

[Balata]

it doesn't cost money to have contingency plans in place should an event happen which the odds say was going to happen at some point. What I'm learning is that NASA had none for this and that's as startling to discover as the ship itself disintegrating on Saturday.

It certainly seems to be pointing in this direction. I keep saying wait until all the facts come out, but the more facts that do come out keep pointing to this conclusion.

[blackdog]

John, this is an internet forum. It consists of millions of people who are uninformed in an endless content. Some things we know well, most we do not. We still participate in debate. For many, such comments and questions are examples of our wanting to be interested and informed by persons such as yourself on this topic. In most cases we try not to show insensitivity towards others in our comments or questions, reacting to our comments as just that is a bit off base.

If the only content being discussed here was from experts, we would be at a joint NTSB/NASA session behind a microphone. Our place is here, and you will have to accept that, and my apology if any of my questions or comments over what to me is a serious tragic matter which may illustrate my lack of expertise, but also my desire to be involved in a way other than listening to what Dan Rather has to say.

[Chad Fairbanks]

The issue is not the TPS fragility.

Let me tell you about TPS reports....