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From NASA engineering film: Sequential pix of debris hitting Columbia's wing
NASA via CNN Online & Yahoo News ^ | 2/3/03 | Wolfstar

Posted on 02/03/2003 4:43:52 PM PST by Wolfstar

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:02:01 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Released Monday morning, a high-speed NASA engineering film shows a piece of debris falling from the large external tank on the space shuttle Columbia's liftoff and hitting the orbiter's left wing. Bear in mind that these are extreme close-ups of a high-speed event. In the top couple of photos, you see only the top of the broken-off piece. Most of it is in the shadows. Depending on which clip you see and how slowly it is run, to the uninitiated person's eye, it can look either like the debris strikes the wing hard enough to pulverize the debris, or the debris strikes a glancing blow and bounces off in the direction of the main and booster engine exhaust.


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: columbia; photos; shuttle
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To: DoughtyOne
The piece was 8" x 12" according to NASA today. The press is reporting feet not inches which was debunked in the news conference. The NASA spokesman also showed that the piece did not hit at a 90 degree angle which would have caused a catastropic event although that was also reported in the press.

Same press also reported that one of the pilots had 3,600+ miles flying experience when it is flying hours not miles.

A lot of bad press out there as they have already determined in their press spin that the tiles caused this accident and that mantra is being kept up on here.

The briefing today was great including the explanation of temperature in the wheel well. Check and see if it is going to be reshown on C-SPAN because it would be well worth viewing.

161 posted on 02/03/2003 6:20:09 PM PST by PhiKapMom (Bush/Cheney 2004)
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To: freepersup
Why isn't there at least two tethered space suits available on board each shuttle for external repairs ?

Maybe for the same reason a commercial flight has no parachuttes for the passengers. Cost/benefit.

162 posted on 02/03/2003 6:20:16 PM PST by VRWC_minion ( Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and most are right)
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To: Ravenstar
This thread needs your professional opinion.
163 posted on 02/03/2003 6:20:19 PM PST by petuniasevan (RIP Columbia crew - you were the "Right Stuff")
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To: meyer
Thanks for the comments. The parts of the shuttle that you can see on the video are much larger than the debris. Debris that small would burn up far before it could be photographed.
164 posted on 02/03/2003 6:21:51 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne; Howlin
You are correct that the object is larger than many people realize, DoughtyOne, because most of it is in shadow. However, I believe you are wrong in other particulars. Once the debris detached it immediately would have begun to decelerate as gravity began pulling it back toward earth, while the shuttle continued to accelerate. Even though we are talking about milliseconds, the orbiter and its fuel tanks were probably moving faster than the detached object when the latter hit the wing.

I have seen two different clips (different resolutions) of this exceeding brief incident, and the clips were run at two different ultra slow motion speeds. In one clip, it looks as though the object hits straight into the wing pretty sharply and the object disintegrates. In the other, it looks as though the object hits just a glancing blow and bounces off (intact) towards the exhaust. The point is that, even to my untrained eye, both how hard and where the object hit the wing is open to interpretation.

In any case, I am convinced that it would take a highly educated eye to correctly interpret what we see in that video and stills coming from it. (That's "educated" in the sense of familiarity with the launch vehicle and orbiter.)

That's why I posted the photos, in the hopes that someone more knowledgeable than I might interpret them for us. Too bad many people have chosen to debate the silly notion that Mission Control is, in effect, a bunch of cold-blooded murders.

165 posted on 02/03/2003 6:21:55 PM PST by Wolfstar
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To: boris
You obviously have an advantage on me here..

But I would assume that in the weightlessness of space that an arm could be pretty spindly and light here, but still be functional there.

It's certainly cheaper and doesn't require more than basic electronics to guide it reliably, in addition the arm has no fuel consumption requirements to place it's use into the "time sensitive" category..

I would go with a tublar arm with drive motors and geared friction devices (like a volkswagon bumper jack, simplistic example) for extension and rotation driven by stepper motors, all run by a microcontroller with a camera on the end.

Okay, go ahead and blast me out of the sky now..

(So to speak.. :)

166 posted on 02/03/2003 6:22:53 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (A Shrubbery!)
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To: DoughtyOne
"hitting the shuttle moving in excess of 1000 mph"

The shuttle may have been moving in excess of 1000 mph, but remember the "brick" started out moving at the same speed. The actual relative speed between the two would actually be very small. The "brick" stopped accelerating when it broke off and only traveled a small distance before hitting the wing.

167 posted on 02/03/2003 6:23:15 PM PST by sd-joe
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To: Howlin
LOL, considering the source, it may have been a rabit hole for Al Queda. I didn't study the site real well, but it looked as if it could have been an Arab trouble maker site.
168 posted on 02/03/2003 6:23:26 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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Comment #169 Removed by Moderator

To: Karsus
No, Karsus, that is NOT what they did. It is what you apparently want to believe they did. Vast difference.
170 posted on 02/03/2003 6:24:32 PM PST by Wolfstar
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To: DoughtyOne
Once again, you are failing to understand that the air is moving past the shuttle at 1000 mph plus.

At what altitude? Yes, I neglected the effect of the wind, but the higher the altitude, the less important that is. At whatever altitude, the object will only take on the air's velocity quickly if it's not very dense. If it's not very dense, it's not going to have all that much energy/momentum when it hits the wing. I think I heard this afternoon, that they were at 80 something seconds when the debris hit the wing, so they were fairly high. High altitude works in favor of it speeding up, relative to the shuttle, less quickly. If they were doing 1000 mph at the time, they were already fairly high

Whatever it was didn't appear to fall from the top of the tank, but rather from the forward attach point.

171 posted on 02/03/2003 6:24:51 PM PST by El Gato
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To: demlosers
your dad? your dad?

i'm disappointed...

no, i'm downright deflated.
172 posted on 02/03/2003 6:24:53 PM PST by glock rocks (i only engineer zeroes and ones.)
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To: Howlin
20X16X6, weight 2.67 pounds.

Sounds about like the density of dense foam insulation. I'm thinking that its that kind-of hard, brittle stuff that turns to dust when you hit it with a baseball bat. At any rate, its quite a bit larger than a laptop computer and much lighter. I don't think this stuff can even break glass if that's what it is.

Someone else raised the doubt that this foam object hitting the wing is the initial cause. I really don't know, but I'm also suspecting that it is a dead-end street. It's the media's cause; not necessarily NASA's.

173 posted on 02/03/2003 6:25:22 PM PST by meyer
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To: meyer
That's exactly what he said, that when it hit it turned to dust and the energy dissipated (?).
174 posted on 02/03/2003 6:26:22 PM PST by Howlin
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To: leadhead
What are they going to do, come in upside down and backwards?

The best they could have done, I believe, to increase their chances would have been to dump as much weight as possible. Eject science experiments, suits, food, water, anything to reduce the overall shuttle weight... then pray as they returned.

There was no magical alternative path to keep them safe.

175 posted on 02/03/2003 6:27:14 PM PST by VetoBill (Who is the actor that plays Dan Rather?)
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To: Jhoffa_
PS: To further dig my grave, the steppers provide a means of encoding the arm's movements...

They are not like a motor that goes "zizz" when powered.

They are used for precise movement in X-Y tables and such.

176 posted on 02/03/2003 6:28:42 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (A Shrubbery!)
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To: Amerigomag
I typed what I heard. And as I told everybody on the thread, I was at a disadvantage because I did NOT know what they were talking about.
177 posted on 02/03/2003 6:29:51 PM PST by Howlin
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To: El Gato
A sort of big foam pad, some gyros, and something akin to the old Gemmi handheld manuevering unit to provide the deorbit "burn".

Such a thing could probably be made to be even lighter and work even better today, due to "solid state" gyros and accellerometers, along with cheap microprocessors, than it's designers are likely to have ever envisioned. (The "pad" is really a bag that gets filled up with foam just before use, thus not taking up much space when not needed.) As I said before though, it would be one hell of a ride.

178 posted on 02/03/2003 6:30:45 PM PST by El Gato
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To: DoughtyOne; Vinomori
Are you qualified/trained to investigate/read/study/assess, high speed film, muchless a NASA engineering space flight take-off film?




179 posted on 02/03/2003 6:31:24 PM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday! (I suppose in an "Ask Jeeves" world, everyone is a rocket scientist.)
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To: Wolfstar; DoughtyOne
They found the nose cone tonight, including the section where the pilot sits. Hemphill, Texas.
180 posted on 02/03/2003 6:31:29 PM PST by Howlin
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