BREAKING: NBC News finds Jan 30 NASA Memo showing serious concern about tile damage!

NBC News | February 3, 2003 | Jay Barbree

[Timesink]

Developing. Watch MSNBC for latest. Internal memo shows some engineers believe there was up to a 7 1/2-inch gash from the foam breakoff at launch. Memo was serious enough to go out to all NASA centers two days before disaster.

[hchutch]

The fact is, some folks will second-guess. Fact remains, there are soem changes that will happen. The tile-repair system they had considered will probably be put up there as a means to try to repair the damage, and they will have the means to pull off spacewalks available, although that will reduce the payload a shuttle can carry.

They will also watch, and the next time there is debris hits like the one they had on STS-107, they will abort the mission. It looks like it was a freak accident for the most part.

[john316]

Given the lack of preparation...

That is blatantly incorrect. Each mission is layed out and significant training takes place. Every thing is tested and re-tested, then "broken" during simulations to test limits and scenarios. I think it very irresponsible for folks whom have never even see the "level B" or "level C" data requirements for one of these missions or haven't the faintest idea of how robust the testing, verification, validation, and certification procedures can be spouting garbage.

/rant off

[Alberta's Child]

One of the most gripping stories I've heard involved the first Apollo mission to the moon in 1969. NASA actually had a contingency plan in place in the event the lunar module couldn't get off the surface of the moon -- they would have brought the command module back alone and left the two astronauts on the surface. And they would have cut off all contact with them so that nobody could have any conversation with them once it was determined that they could not be saved.

Not only that, but President Nixon's staff had prepared a "contingency" speech that he would have given if the crew were lost during the mission.

I know it's hard to accept, but when it comes to something like space travel there are often "points of no return" that come into play.

[Poohbah]

Quick question...

Each tile is custom-formed to a specific shape.

How do you have a "tile repair kit" under such circumstances?

[john316]

thx

[Dave S]

I am glad that NASA didn't have your attitude during Apollo XIII.

Apollo 13 was lucky. The part of their ship that was damaged was the part that is jetisoned before re-entry. They had options, they just needed to stay alive until they got within range of earth. Sounds like the Shuttle crew didnt have those options. I have yet to hear of any options in over 300 posts that had a shot of being successful.

[js1138]

Isn't there still the option to abort the flight after launch before the shuttle leaves the earths atmosphere? I know that time is short in that margin but it seems there would be some sort of contingency or emergency procedures that would apply.

They have a few minutes after liftoff, before they're committed to orbit. However, the "debris" had been seen many times before. There was nothing in the first few minutes that looked unusual.

[TLBSHOW]

read post 316 because that has me irritated.

[HairOfTheDog]

Howlin, there is another NASA press conference in 15 min....

[hchutch]

NASA had supposedly developed a "tile repair kit" that involved something like a caulking gun. Supposedly it degraded tile performance (I'm assuming it cut into the safety margins). I recall reading about it in one of the books I used to have on the space shuttle.

[Mo1]

Thanks for the update

[Howlin]

Look, I found another picture!

[TLBSHOW]

the source a 36 year NASA person

Don A. Nelson
Retired NASA Aerospace Engineer

[timestax]

YEAH BUT..what's the use of having a "space station" if it can't be used in an emergency? And I'm sure if enough scientist, and engineers put their brains to work, they could come up with a way to temporarily repair tile damage in space. And if a shuttle is "too heavy" to reach space station, it should be mothballed and maybe put in a space museum.


318 posted on 02/03/2003 8:11 AM PST by timestax
[

[Mollygal]

Whistle blowers are only useful after a disaster, in every organization, there will be naysayers for all sorts of reasons (being skip over for a raise, a promotion, bad blood with teams, internal politics) - hard to know ahead of time if the complains are valid...

I am getting tried of these i told you so recriminations - it adds zero value to the situation...

NASA found out the falling foam installation one day after the launch, even if it find something si wrong with the heat tiles at that time, there is NOTHING NASA or the astronauts can do...

the only thing NASA can do now is to revisit the design of the foam insulation units or find out the real cause for the tragedy...recriminations or all the I told you so stuff means little...

btw - related to Iraq - I wonder if we dont move on to get rid the WMDs Saddam got, and we get some terror attacks here some year down the road, what will the naysayers will do then...or should the hawks play the I told you so game...personally, I think after the incidence, all the recriminations will serve zero purposes...

jmho.

[TLBSHOW]

You have been wrong on this story from the start and now you post comedy, Shame on you!

[john316]

The Return To Launch Site (RTLS) abort maneuver is very risky, and given the payload and engineering changes since Challenger I wouldn't think it would even be a viable option anymore.

[Mo1]

LOL

[PhiKapMom]

That's probably my problem as well! Been around the AF for over 25+ years and have 13 years myself of working for them. I have seen accident reports and know how much effort it takes to pinpoint something.

It is just that the press really gets to me when they have done absolutely no research and yet come on the air.

I would like to believe, however, that I wouldn't ask the same question over and over again and would know that you cannot parachute out from 200,000+feet. Or that computer software can have a glitch that could cause catastrophic problems especially since we just had an example of that on the attacks on the Internet.

[TennesseeProfessor]

Possible scenarios for rescuing stranded shuttle crew:

• We know that the shuttle could not have reached the ISS. But does the ISS escape soluz (sp) have enough fuel to reach the shuttle?
• Russia just this weekend launched a resupply ship to the ISS. Could it have resupplied the stranded shuttle instead?
• Everyone claims there is absolutely no way that Atlantis could have been ready in time. But much of the delay in a shuttle's schedule is because the cargo isn't checked yet or pending flight investigations. If the word came down "You must launch by XX date", could the crew have had an unloaded shuttle by then? If they knew that lives depended on it?
• Even if absolutely nothing could be done other than reenter and hope for the best, NASA could at least have given the astronauts additional time with their loved ones, AND ditch the spacelab to make the shuttle at least a little lighter to reduce the heat load.

In short, this ostrich-in-the-sand mentality of "If the tiles are damaged, they are all dead, so why bother checking?" is unbecoming of NASA. The Apollo-XIII crew survived what was previously analyzed to be a certain death scenario, but it looks like this crew wasn't given that chance.