BREAKING: NBC News finds Jan 30 NASA Memo showing serious concern about tile damage!

NBC News | February 3, 2003 | Jay Barbree

[Timesink]

Developing. Watch MSNBC for latest. Internal memo shows some engineers believe there was up to a 7 1/2-inch gash from the foam breakoff at launch. Memo was serious enough to go out to all NASA centers two days before disaster.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

it should never of been sent into space to start with 20 days ago.

Just curious. Did you say this before this mission started? Have you been against the entire Space Shuttle program?

[Dave S]

Person said that the outside of the Shuttle was smooth, with no handles for the Astronaut to hold on to while trying to make a repair. I was under the impression he was referring to the "Tile Area". The handles on the outside of the shuttle were expensive to install it's not "cost effective". IOW's they USED to have handles, so the Astronauts wouldn't float off into orbit.

There are no handles and I doubt there ever were. On a ship that is traveling at speeds of mach 18 or greater you dont want something that is not aerodymanically smooth sticking out. It will cause drag and thus more HEAT.

[PhiKapMom]

I know -- makes you want to scream. Think too many people believe Star Wars, the movie, is fact! I lost count of the number of times I have seen the fact the Columbia could not get to the space station but now the question is being asked why couldn't the space station come to Columbia?

If you hear a scream -- it is me!!!!

[Alberta's Child]

For those of you who still think anything could have been done to save that Columbia crew, I'd suggest you review the numerous threads that have been posted here over the last few days and see all of the reasons why the courses of action you've suggested simply could not be done.

Remember how damned-near impossible it was to get any kind of rescue effort in place when the Russian submarine Kursk went down a couple of years ago? Sending another shuttle or a Russian rescue craft up into space to meet the Columbia would have been like sending a U.S. nuclear submarine to rescue Russians from the Kursk. Without the proper docking configurations on both spacecraft, the two vehicles may as well have been a thousand miles apart.

[john316]

If I remember correctly, for the payload bay doors to be open the orbiter should be oriented in such a way that the "belly" would facing earth. Therefore I would tend to believe that this picture is BS

[Man of the Right]

Imagine O.J.-type saturation coverage of the astronauts and the country emoting until they died from starvation, thirst or suffocation and thereafter. Bush being attacked while the astronauts suffocate on live TV worldwide.

Other possibilities included a Desert One-type rescue fiasco or an Apollo 13-type successful rescue. Given a total lack of preparation, equipment and training, a successful rescue would have been a long-shot but a political necessity.

[bvw]

So NASA gave up. Didn't even try.

That, Kevin, is your "pathological risk aversion" in action. Who are the real cowards?

[Dane]

I think this is very instructive in how some people, sitting in the comfort of their computer rooms with scant information and NO accountability, immediately attack NASA like piranha on a beef carcass.

It is amazing how they will pounce on a biased media report, but many people are reading this thread. This was not possible 7 years ago when places such as Free Republic were not around.

Places like Free Republic gives a person to hear the other side, basically that a rescue would have been nearly impossible, and to hear voices that say that NASA isn't the evil entity as being purveyed by some on this thread, but a place filled with people who try to do their best in a business where disaster lurks around every corner.

[Howlin]

Evidently these people believe lies repeated over and over magically become truth.

[TLBSHOW]

Sorry no I can't take credit for that.

The only one that can take credit for that is Don Nelson who sent a warning to President Bush in the summer, and in dec the President said no he would not stop the program.

[Howlin]

ROFLMAO.......that sound you hear is your POINT bouncing off Mars!

[PhiKapMom]

I started yelling at my TV at a little after 6:00 this morning because of dumb questions and scenarios. No one is researching a thing.

The comments I have read on here are beyond my comprehension as well. And they keep coming back with the same questions or scenario.

[Alberta's Child]

We've already determined that the photo is a hoax. For one thing, the earth is too far away in that picture. Also, when the shuttle is in space it flies "upside down" relative to the earth -- so any photo of the wing taken from inside the orbiter would not have shown the earth in the background.

[PhiKapMom]

I have noticed the Agenda on here which is making me want to scream as well!

If they wanted to irritate some of us, well they have succeeded because they have me as irritated as I can get with their dumb stupid questions!

[Howlin]

That picture is a fraud.

[TLBSHOW]

right here is the warning that was ignored



Request for Executive Order Limiting Space Shuttle Operations

August 25, 2002

Office of the President of the United States
Mr. George W. Bush

Subject: Executive Order for a Moratorium on Space Shuttle Flight

Mr. President,
I am a recently retired NASA aerospace engineer and it is my duty to inform you that our space shuttle astronauts are in eminent danger. Your intervention is required to prevent another catastrophic space shuttle accident. NASA management and the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel have failed to respond to the growing warning signs of another shuttle accident. Since 1999 the launch system has experienced the following potential disastrous occurrences:

July 1999 - Space Shuttle Columbia delayed by hydrogen leak.

December 1999 - Space Shuttle Discovery was grounded with damaged wiring, contaminated engine, dented fuel line, and paper work errors.

January 2000 - Space Shuttle Endeavor is delayed because of wiring and computer failures.

March 2000 - Space Shuttle Atlantis main engine must be replaced because of paperwork errors.

August 2000 - Inspection of Space Shuttle Columbia reveals 3,500 defects in wiring. Wiring defects plague entire fleet.

October 2000 - The 100th flight of the space shuttle was delayed because of a misplaced safety pin and concerns with the external tank.

April 2001 - NASA failed to keep adequate watch on safety operations of a major contractor.

July 2002 - The inspector general reports that space shuttle safety program not properly managed.

April 2002 - Hydrogen leak forces scrub of the Atlantis flight.

August 2002 - Shuttle launch system grounded after fuel line cracks are discovered in all the fleet!

Mr. President, as you are painfully aware NASA management has been lacking for a number of years. Unfortunately, your new NASA Administrator has failed to recognize the eminent space shuttle danger and has accepted the consul of the pre-existing NASA shuttle management. These managers still pursue a management philosophy that has stagnated the safety upgrades efforts and perpetuates the staggering launch costs.

The space shuttle or any space transportation vehicle without crew escape modules will never be safe to transport humans. To incorporate crew escape modules in the space shuttle requires that the piloting function be removed from the vehicle. Unfortunately, the background of the shuttle management is that of former flight controllers and astronauts. They have been trained to never trust automated flight control systems. Therefore, they are adamantly opposed to automation of the space shuttle. Efforts by NASA engineers and contractors to automate the shuttles are met with stern rebukes and reprimands in some cases.
Mr. President, to prevent another shuttle disaster it is requested that an Executive Order be issued that places a moratorium on space shuttle operations. This moratorium must limit shuttle missions to flight crews that do not exceed four members. The moratorium must remain in effect until crew escape modules can be incorporated.
This moratorium will serve as a catalyst to kick-start the resisting NASA management into action. The lives of our astronauts and the future of our space program must not be ignored. The warning from the Thiokol engineer was ignored and the Challenger exploded. The terrorist training warning from FBI agents was ignored and we had the 9-11 disaster. When the next shuttle explodes...and Murphy’s Law says it will, we can exclaim with pride a loud "YES!" as the crew escape module carries our astronauts to safety...

or if this moratorium is ignored...we can watch in horror and shame as the astronauts face certain death.

Don A. Nelson
Retired NASA Aerospace Engineer

Reply from the President's OSTP:

"I do not think that it is appropriate for the President to issue a moratorium on Space Shuttle launches at this time" Dec. 4 2002.

Comment: Dec. 12, 2002 another Shuttle propellant leak found!

[Howlin]

We should consider the source of most of this tripe.

[timestax]

YEAH BUT..what's the use of having a "space station" if it can't be used in an emergency? And I'm sure if enough scientist, and engineers put their brains to work, they could come up with a way to temporarily repair tile damage in space. And if a shuttle is "too heavy" to reach space station, it should be mothballed and maybe put in a space museum.

[myrabach]

Just stopping and looking at the fact that NASA could be out of business from another disaster... particularly a disaster that COULD have been averted... is reason enough for me to believe there was nothing that could have been done. They assessed the possible problems and determined it was safe to return.

We want NASA to be the bad guy, we want a reason for this, we want to blame someone. But sometimes the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

NASA had too much to lose to mess up. They are serious professionals and care even more about the crews that we do. Most of us could not name even one of the crew members, most of us did not even see the launch. To pretend that we care more than NASA is a farce. Most of us know so little about the actual space program that to even suggest that there was something more that could have been done is just plane uninformed and wishful thinking IMHO.

[Desdemona]

I honestly think people just don't know. I happen to be a defense brat. My dad was an engineer on fighters currently in the fleet. We lived for a time at one of the flight test centers and around test pilots, and a few future (now, present) astronauts. For anybody who follows space flight, this is no-brainer stuff. Starting with the liquid oxygen used for fuel in launch, there's one major thing that can go wrong after another. There's no logic or physics, that I can tell, being used.

If my past hadn't told me that all these speculations are ridiculous, who knows, I could fall into that trap, too.