Homeowner Must Pay $102,000 For Flying the American Flag

American Homeowners Resource Center (AHRC) ^ | January 25, 2003 | Shu Bartholomew

[chuknospam]

Homeowner Must Pay $102,000 For Flying the American Flag May have to pay an additional $42,000

January 25, 2003

By Shu Bartholomew (View author info)

Richmond, VA - Breaking News...

Contact Richard and Ava Oulton FAX (804)270-5757

Richard and Ava Oullton were informed by Judge Harris of the Henrico County Circuit Court to be prepared to pay the consequences if Old Glory is still flying on their property on March 1st.

Having exhausted every avenue of appeal, the Oultons ultimately lost the battle to keep their flagpole on their property.

The Virginia Supreme Court's opinion, that people who live in homeowners' associations have very limited freedoms and property rights, was echoed by the United States Supreme Court.

On remand to the Henrico County Circuit Court, the Oulton's were ordered to comply with the wishes of the association or be prepared to go to jail.

They have been ordered to pay in excess of $102,000 to cover the association's costs, with another $42,000 to be decided by Judge Harris at a later date. Included in that award is several thousand dollars to hire a bulldozer, dump truck and several Henrico County Police to remove the 25 foot flagpole and the flag -- by force.

[chaosagent]

"But these people moved in KNOWING the Association existed and would have been provided a copy of the CC&Rs. "

This was not true in my case and many other people I know.

We moved from AL to Houston and had never heard of HOAs. When we signed the contract for our house, we did not receive a copy of HOA rules, as we were supposed to. And we didn't know to ask. There was nothing in the contract we signed either.

When we went to the closing months later, among the 20-30 papers we signed, we signed a paper stating we had received a copy of the rules and agreed to abide by them.

Turns out the the salesperson for the builder was supposed to give us a copy before we signed the contract. But of course they never do because they don't want to take a chance of screwing up a sale.

And for those who say they would never buy a home with an HOA, it's almost impossible to buy a home in Houston that doesn't have an HOA. With no zoning here, it's the only way to keep someone from opening a paint and body shop right next door to your home.

[freedumb2003]

>>Turns out the the salesperson for the builder was supposed to give us a copy before we signed the contract. But of course they never do because they don't want to take a chance of screwing up a sale. <<

Hmmm.. sounds like a material breach and a basis to rescind the sale, but maybe someone out there is a Real Estate Lawyer?

Actually, I sort of corrected myself in a later post: rules can be passed at pretty much anytime, so the CC&Rs in effect at purchase time might not apply to a given situation later.

[stuartcr]

Why are you sorry for your opinion?

[chaosagent]

See #81

[chaosagent]

I actually looked into this.

But the salesperson and builder were only SUPPOSED to give us a copy, not legally required to.

Apparently, I was supposed to know about the law and ask for a copy. You know "Ignorance of the law is...."

[ShadowDancer]

It's called "Reconstruction."

It's called a blatant and gross abuse of power. There is no way in hell they should have to pay for that portion of the fines.

[HamiltonJay]

Your failure to ask does not or know, does not exempt you from it. You bought somewhere with an HMA... you chose to do it, now because you did so without doing your research, does not excuse you from the rules.

[HamiltonJay]

Basically falls into the "ALWAYS READ WHAT YOU SIGN" did you have your own Lawyer at the closing? If you did, he'd be liable... otherwise, you got a live and learn... worth that $150 to have your own laywer there.

[metesky]

I wouldn't imply Mr. Oulton is too smart as all the courts seem to have ruled against him.

[metesky]

And another thing: it is my opinion that anybody who buys property in one of these associations where others have more to say about your property than you do isn't hitting on all cylinders anyway.

[Leisler]

"And another thing: it is my opinion that anybody who buys property in one of these associations where others have more to say about your property than you do isn't hitting on all cylinders anyway"

Which reminds me.

Are the townfolk still surrounding your compound, or have they pulled the diesel lights, barbed wire, observation towers, speakers, shepards........

[B4Ranch]

I don't believe that it an open garage door.

[Wonder Warthog]

"The decision to join this community was freely made -- they can't exercise such a decision and then later try to change the deal THEY accepted at the time. The best way to survive common interest fascism is to join the board and influence the rules."

Yeah, and what if LATER, the board promulgates a rule that you don't like--you know, the "tyranny of the majority" thing?? Sorry, but I believe in the primacy of private property, not "socialism" (and "neighborhood associations" are nothing BUT socialism).

The town near which I live has a gun club--it has been there for FIFTY YEARS. Now, a neighborhood group from an upscale but "johnny-come-lately" development is doing its damndest to shut the gun club down--and the liklihood is that they will succeed. And if you were in that neighborhood, I'm sure you would be right there cheering for the nanny Nazis.

[discostu]

Of course one of the new things is neighborhood associations, they just crop up and start whining to the city about stupid stuff. They don't have the power of HOAs but they can be damnably annoying. The NA that cropped up where I lived for 10 years suddenly decided that the internal combustion engine was a tool of Satan and started getting the city to do stuff to keep them out of the neighborhood (shock absorber destroying speed bumps all over the place, trying to get rid of stop lights which so far has failed but the bumps are epidemic to the area now). Completely ignoring the fact that right through the middle of the neighborhood they'd claimed was the only way to get from the center of town to the north of town for about 6 miles (not many bridges over the little river, most streets just crap out and end when they get near it).

Traffic through the area hasn't dropped one bit, but people familiar with it now take bizarre paths through it to avoid the bumps (thus increasing the auto-miles drive). So the net effect is a lot of money got wasted adding stupid lumps to the roads, everybody who drives through there will need suspension work more frequently, and the NA feels good about themselves, and the smart people are fleeing the area. All busy-bodies are evil.

[freedumb2003]

>>Yeah, and what if LATER, the board promulgates a rule that you don't like--<<

Yes, as I clearly pointed out in my posts here, it's a risk. Some are willing to take it, others not. But it is certainly a KNOWN risk -- as many have said here they could never live in a common interest area.

Your johnny come lately types represent a different kind of problem -- retro-NIMBYism. I have had to deal with it in terms of Burbank Airport. For years planned expansion has been stymied by a bunch of people who moved in well AFTER the airport was built -- I am in the flight path and I knew that when I bought my place. But these putulant crybabies (who, by the way, are more than happy to use the airport because it is so conveniently near) keep trying not only to stop expansion but also to limit the operations to fit their schedules. The entire resgion suffers for a small number of selfish jerks.

I hope your gun club fights the good fight and knocks these white wine spritzer drinkers on the their butts.

[Your Nightmare]

And another thing: it is my opinion that anybody who buys property in one of these associations where others have more to say about your property than you do isn't hitting on all cylinders anyway.

I guess that would include the members of the HOA too.

[Destructor]

"I have a friend in the property management business and he tells me all of these places are the same. You always get a group that minds everyone else's business and wants to control everyone else's business. My first thought, Destructor, was "this place is run by commissars." All of the biddies have far left bumper stickers on their cars of course."

Thanks for the warning. Now I know for sure that I'll avoid living in any neghborhood/development that has a Neighborhood association!

[metesky]

The compound is safe.

That wasn't a deisel generator, being Bangor all they could afford was squirrel power which my new pit bull promptly put back up the trees where the fat-tailed rats belong.

I had the barbed wire for a snack, the observation towers succumbed to a few well placed Grecian "gas bombs", the speakers gave out after two days of below zero weather and the shepherds became very nervous and ran when I showed them my "manhood".

We are dug in for another attack and are prepared to retaliate with satire, farce and general mockery.

As an added precaution I gave them your address.

[metesky]

It's my understanding that an HA, which actually gets to write clauses into your deed is entirely different from an NA which you are free to ignore.