Roe v Wade and the Rights of the Father

triCity News | 1/23/03 | Tommy DeSeno

[LonePalm]

Justified Right - The Conservative Alternative to triCity

Roe v Wade and the rights of the Father

I propose a "Father's Abortion." Let a Father petition the Court to terminate his own parental rights to his child after the child's birth.

The emphasis must not be on the right to abortion but on the right to privacy and reproductive control. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg (speaking of a woman's right).

This January 22 marks the 30th anniversary of Roe v Wade, the Supreme Court decision which overturned all State laws that would stop a woman from having an abortion in the first trimester. While the topic I have chosen here, Roe v Wade and the Rights of the Father may sound interesting, actually there is nothing to write about. There are no such rights. A Father can't stop an abortion if he wants his child, nor can he insist upon an abortion if he doesn't want his child. This situation should trouble everyone, not from a religious point of view, but rather from an Equal Rights point of view.

Equal Rights for all people is difficult for any nation to achieve peaceably, because it requires the group in greater power to yield to the group of lesser power. This is usually accomplished only through war. Our own Civil War is a perfect example of equality being created by force, instead of reason and fairness, as it should have been.

This week as I watched and read opinions about Roe v Wade, I could find nothing, not a word among millions that addressed a Father's relationship to his unborn child.

Two weeks ago I tried an experiment in anticipation of writing this column. I put in a column about gun control that I thought only men should vote on the issue of guns. The logic (rather illogic) used by me was that men buy guns the most, men are called upon to use them the most (when a burglar enters our home), and we get shot the most. Why shouldn't men have the only voice on the issue? I wanted to gauge people's reactions to the thought that in America we would ever give more weight to one person's view than another's because that person can show the issue affects him more.

As I walked about the City (Asbury Park, NJ) these two weeks, I was accosted by people who wanted to take me to task for suggesting that women lose their right to vote on an issue just because the may be affected less by it than men. Some pointed out, quite rightly, that even if there was an issue that didn't affect women at all, as equal members of society, they should still have a voice in all decisions America makes. Quite right indeed. So today I pose the question - Where are all these well-reasoned arguements when it comes to a Father and his unborn child? Why do people who have Equal Protection arguments at the ready on other issues suddenly suffer constitutional amnesia when abortion is mentioned?

During every abortion a Father's child dies, so Fathers are affected. There is much written about the post-abortion depression of women. Nothing is mentioned about the Father. After birth a good Father knows his role is protector of his child. His depression must be crippling when the law allows him no chance to save his child from death by an abortion.

The Supreme Court in Roe v Wade found a privacy right in the 14th Amendment, which doesn't have the word privacy in it. Then they found that the privacy right had a "penumbra" containing other rights (penumbra meand a shadowy area at the edge of a shadow). In that shadow they found the abortion right. That bit on mental gymnastics aside, it wasn't the most terrible part of the decision. This was:

The Court said that a woman may not be mentally ready to handle a child at this stage in her life, or the child might interfere with her career path, and that is so important to her that the State has no right to make a law against it.

So I ask today: Might a Father find himself mentally not ready for a child? Might a Father find a child inconvenient to his career path? If these are rights women get to protect by choosing abortion, why not allow Fathers "the right to choose" also? I propose a "Father's Abortion." Let a Father petition the Court to terminate his own parental rights to his child after the chlid's birth. He would be rid of his obligations to that child in favor of his mental health and finances, the same as a woman does when she aborts.

I propose this not because it would be in any way good. I propose it because constitutional Equal Protection demands it, and to show the danger created when judges destroy democracy by making up laws that don't exist. "Father's Abortion." It's high time for a test case.

Tommy DeSeno is a lawyer in downtown Asbury Park.

[Coleus]

I will say, however, that if you really think that you and your groups will ever abolish abortion completely in this country and to the extent you want it, you will not.>>>

You will never get rid of rape, will you? But I sure bet you want laws against it, NO? The same here with abortion. And how does religion? hurt the abortion cause? God has nothing to do with life and death? Hmmm, I've never heard that one before. And where the heck did I accuse you of murdering children? Are you telling me you are a frequent consumer of RU-486? You started prying and I started responding, I just wish you came right out and stated your views instead of playing games.

And I beg to differ with you, we are a very religious nation where religious freedom prevails and where our founding fathers wanted God in the daily lives of all Americans only not to have an official "American" religion if you are referring to the establishment clause.

>>>>As I see it, many of the anti abortion groups should join forces, set up homes for unwed mothers, help the women that find homes for their children. >>>>

And we are helping women with pregnancies, It's being done all over usually started by the pro life people.
http://www.priestsforlife.org/brochures/thebible.html
http://www.womenandchildrenfirst.org/
http://www.pregnancycenters.org/
http://www.birthright.org/
http://www.abortionalternatives.com/flash/index.html
http://www.skylace.net/adoption/g-agencies.php3
http://www.friendship-center.org/where.htm
http://www.care-net.org/homeframeset.html
http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com/
http://www.rosegardenhome.org
http://www.theopendoor.com/
http://www.feministsforlife.org/cop/ads.htm
http://lifesavers.glorifyjesus.com/

And yes, RU-486 does indeed, KILL Babies.

[Hotdog]

Posted by Hotdog to therut
On News/Activism 01/22/2003 11:01 PM EST #20 of 33

I wrote this in 1973...I rest my case!


I've got a son that never came.
One that flew kites and arrow-planes.
One that danced in the springtime rains.
Don't know why or who's to blame.
But I've got a son that never came.

Bullfrogs and butterflies he'll never see.
He'll stroll through an open field, but not with me.

There was a time his heart beat strong.
It beat with rhythm as in a song.
And to me his love belonged.
Don't know why or what went wrong.
But there was a time his heart beat strong.

It's left in my mind and my heart will tease.
There's no love in my life for my son and me.

Before I had a chance to fight.
They took my son up a flight.
To a room to take his life.
Don't know why I had no rights.
Before I had a chance to fight.

Then five months early they stole him from his womb.
Laid him in a corner and watched him die in his tomb.

But for one split second I thought I heard him cry...
"I'm gonna have to leave you now. I love you Dad. Goodbye."

[stopsign]

Please put me on your ping list.
Thanks.

[stopsign]

Well said.

[Hotdog]

Thanks...

[carenot]

But for one split second I thought I heard him cry... "I'm gonna have to leave you now. I love you Dad. Goodbye."

My God, how terrible for you.

[Hotdog]

Sometimes the truth hurts!

[carenot]

Sometimes the truth hurts!

Yes, it does. That is why I want pictures of dead and dismembered babies shown everywhere.

[LisaAnne]

And how does religion? hurt the abortion cause?
I'm saying that bringing your personal view of religion does not help the cause, as many of those you are trying to reach religion would not make them stop.
God has nothing to do with life and death? Hmmm, I've never heard that one before.
Yes, of course God has a hand in life or death, but mostly people do.
And where the heck did I accuse you of murdering children?
Just thought you might think I was taking a pro choice posisiton,as this subject seems to be highly emotional.
Are you telling me you are a frequent consumer of RU-486?
No, never had the need for it and would probably not use it if I did.
You started prying and I started responding, I just wish you came right out and stated your views instead of playing games.
I didn't realize I was prying, I was only asking a couple quesitons.

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[Coleus]

I was only asking a couple quesitons.>>

C'mon, you knew the answers before you asked me :)

[Hotdog]

have to say I don't want to see this but if thats what it takes...then so be it!

[yendu bwam]

It is an abomination of the highest degree that a father have no rights regarding his unborn child. The worst part of it is children are killed by mothers in instances where fathers would love and nourish and cherish those children. Such is evil.

[GovernmentShrinker]

I am absolutely pro-choice and absolutely opposed to requiring biological fathers to pay any child support whatsoever, unless they contracted to do so prior to or during the pregnancy (and marriage, at least under current law, is construed as such a contract). Too many women out there are getting pregnant on purpose, while claiming to be on the pill, in attempts to keep a man who doesn't want to be kept. If a woman allows herself to become pregnant and exercises her choice to remain pregnant, the child is HER responsibility.

And as for men who object to their biological child being aborted, I'd recommend being more careful where they deposit their sperm. But contracts covering these things ought to be enforceable like any other contract (per that long forgotten clause in the Constitution about the government not interfering with people entering into contracts). If a man wants to be able to block an abortion, he'd better get that in writing beforehand.

[Mixer]

Good Post!

[jjm2111]

Great post Coleus. Bump to the top! (and for later reading for those links). Will help me polish my debating skills on this issue.

[jjm2111]

That was VERY moving.

[Coleus]

The only rights a father has is the right to make out a child support check.>>>>

Yep, you got that right. But men are "partially" to blame since traditionally they do not vote as much as woman. When you look at campaign literature from state and federal candidates, at least in my state, you see that the politician panders to the female by mentioning: mammograms, breast cancer screenings, minimum stays in hospitals after giving birth, etc. it makes it look like they are running for public health nurse instead of a legislator. So, laws are passed and judges are appointed with this mentality.

But that's the way the system works, more woman vote, more women write letters to the editor, more women are active in school pta's, and more women talk about politics, just look at that so-called million mom march. Well the politicians pander to these type of voters. I've never seen more than one hundred people at a freeper event, and guess what, there seems to be more woman at those too.

There's a lot of men who are satisfied with the system so long as they have a job and can pay the bills so they don't vote.

So, until men start organizing and voting, the laws will not change.

[heyheyhey]

-- Abortion will be reduced when peoples hearts and minds are changed.

Very true. It is worth noting however, that the present pro-abortion laws do not represent the people's attitudes. I just posted an article about it.

-- No law ever prevented "murder".

True, but... no law should ever allow killing innocent humans.

-- Yelling and preaching at people, calling them murderers or sinners and trying to pass laws will, in the end, do nothing. Compassion and help to those who need it will do more good than any protest or law.

Both are essential -- preaching the Truth and acts of charity.