The Economics of a Used Car (Vanity)

[ChemistCat]

What's the smartest way to ensure having two good running cars?

[texasbluebell]

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[templar]

It depends on your mechanical abilities and philosophy. Both of my vehicles are 1979 (last year they made good cars). My full size chevy truck (14mpg) has about 300,000 miles on it and my diesel rabbit (50mpg) 448,000 miles. Both vehicles are in decent enough mechanical condtion to drive anywhere with confidence. Just had both emission inspected and even the emission guys were impressed with how well they did. Both look fine to me, but are obviously not showroom fresh.

The truck's been through two engines, three transimssions and two paint jobs. I had to put a clutch in the rabbit this year (didn't need new parts, but I didn't find out till I had it apart. Just some lousy german engineering that allowed wear dust to collect on the inside of the flywheel flange. should have made 700,000 easy).

I do my own work and save significant amounts of money (i.e. an rebuilt auto transmission for the truck cost about $400 and I put it in myself. cheapest I could have it done was $1,200. My last paint job for the truck cost $12.00). The key to long life of a vehicle is to keep things repaired. Vehicles usually don't wear out all at once. Some things, like brake shoes/pads, wheel bearings, starter/generator brushes and bearings, coolant hoses and water pumps, and other predictable wearing parts should just be replaced periodically to head off breakdowns (they're relatively cheap and the long term cost of doing this is less than one tow in from the highway). Junkers are the end result of long time neglect.

An important consideration: Many, many people will judge you by the vehicles you drive. If you are in a position where this could affect your career or financial status, this has to be taken into account.

[knak]

when they hit 100k

That's why I said after you put money into it. I have found most people don't care what the speedometer says as long as they know the motor is sound. I was not suggesting anyone just keep driving the thing and it would be ok.

[The Other Harry]

Couple things...

Statistically, the "service engine soon" light is most likely just the sensing computer on the fritz. That isn't necessarily good news. In many states, you are required to make those lights go off. That can be expensive. I know. One of those little SOB's once cost me close to $1000, and there was nothing else wrong with the engine. But California required that I make that friggin' light go off.

I like Jeeps too, but they are absolute pieces of junk when it comes to reliability. If you can't afford to own one -- and it sounds like you can't -- get rid of it. Don't put one more nickel into it.

I don't know about the Buick. I'd be inclined to get rid of it too, just on general principle. My experience has been that once a car starts becoming a pain in the butt, it continues to be a pain in the butt. You never can fix them. One thing or the other continues to go wrong. They become sink-holes for money.

By the same token, a good car should be driven until the tires go square. Never sell it.

If I were you, I'd do this:

Go down to your local public library and get last April's edition of Consumers Reports. That's their annual car issue. It's a commie magazine, but they do give good advice on some things. Cars are one of those things. They will give you better advice on this subject than any of us will. Cost is zero.

I agree with the person who recommended a Nissan Maxima. Nissans generally sell for less than Toyotas and Hondas, and they are every bit as good. Any Nissan will do. I personally like the Sentras. I buy my daughter two or three of them a year -- just as fast as she wrecks them.

Carmax sounds okay too.

Good luck!

[templar]

The LUCAS Power Steering Stop-Leak did wonders for me. Saved $347 + installation of a heavy-duty E-350 steering pump.

How many miles have you put on it since then? Is the repair fairly long term?

[delphifalcon]

I think there may be some confusion here. Carmax sells cars, Carfax sells car reports. Both offer a valuable service.

BTW, I just bought a new Ford truck. With the rebate it didn't cost that much more than what comparable trucks a couple of years old are going for. And there are no doubts about its history, being new.

[American Preservative]

Thread indexed - FR Topic Bump List Register (Scroll down aways to Auto Shop and click for more threads of interest.)

[Mogger]

My present vehicles:

1966 Mercedes Benz Unimog 404 Funkwagen (14,000 Km, 12 MPG Amsoil Engine Oils and Gear Lubes) Paid $7500 for it. Don't drive it in the winter to avoid salt and rust.

1987 Land Rover Range Rover (148,000+ Miles, 20 MPG, Amsoil Gear Lubes and Engine Oils)- Bought it used 2 years ago for $2000, Had to put in new floors, brake rotors, new pads, new hoses and belts, repair the seat control switches, new front shock towers and shocks. I think I have about $3000 in it total so far including the purchase price.

1997 Saturn SL1 (324,000+ Miles, 10 oil changes with Amsoil 0W-30, 40 MPG) If you want a thrifty car to own get a 1997 or 1998 Saturn.

You can get a good one used for $2000 to $5000. They have polymer body panels except for hood, trunk lid and top so they don't rust much. Should those components rust, you can buy new ones and bolt them on.

The valve guides are shot now as well as first and second gear synchros. They went at about 300,000 miles. I am getting new valve guides in it as well as new synchros starting Wednesday. 2002 Saturn... 43.5 MPG Amsoil in only the engine so far. I now have 48,000 miles on it. Need to change the tranny to Amsoil too. I hate the car though. The seats and headlights are terrible compared to my 97.

[ChemistCat]

Good grief. How do you ever find time to sit at the computer? That's a LOT of driving. Makes me feel a little less sorry for myself...I'm behind the wheel about 2 hours a day and I don't like that.

I really appreciate the responses on this thread and will be sharing them with the mechanic and money man. I will probably be selling this Buick...but selling a car with an unknown problem when you're honest is an incredibly stressful proposition. If I knew what was causing that light--but I don't.

Oklahoma no longer even has safety inspections; they don't care what my dashboard says. I think however that if an unsafe vehicle results in an accident, you can kiss your future goodbye!

[Cacique]

Try a bicycle, it's cheap, don't use gas and keeps you healthy and in shape to boot.

[speekinout]

What about selling your old car vs. trade-in? I want a new car, and my old one is virtually worthless as a trade-in. It's in good shape, but it's a 1989 Mazda.

I sold my 1974 Thing last year, and that was easy, because it is a special car. But a Mazda sedan is a different story. Is there any easy way to sell such an ordinary car?

[keithtoo]

Definitely sell it yourself. You will get much more money. Plus you will be able to 'sell' what you know about the car to a prospective buyer. The dealer taking a trade-in doesn't want your car and will give you as little as he can so he can either send it to an auction or resell it himself for a profit. His resell price would have been your price if you sell it yourself.

It is definitely a hassle to put a car in the paper or AutoTrader.com and have to take the calls and meet the people to actually sell it, but that is where the money is.

As for your Mazda, those are well made cars, but their resell value is always low. I'm not sure why, except that Mazda doesn't have the market presence or prestige of a Toyota or Nissan.

Do yourself a favor and read old reviews of your car on the internet to get some selling points and do a Kelly Blue Book resell value search on Yahoo. Price your car under standard resell value and show the prospective buyer a printout of the Blue Book value to underline the attractiveness of your price.

BTW, I'm not a used-car salesman, but I do buy cars at auctions, fix them up and resell them as a hobby.

[speekinout]

Thanks. The blue book value of my car is $1800. Trade-in is probably $1,000 depending on how anxious the dealer is. I won't bother to sell for less than blue book. So trade-in it is.

[merak]

What's the smartest way to ensure having two good running cars?

Several basic ideas here:

• Get rid of anything prior to 1990 or 1991 vintage. There's just a huge quality difference between 90's and up cars and what went before.
• 100K Miles used to be considered lifespan for any car; 200K and beyond is becoming more the norm than the exception for many 90's and up models.
• Figure on paying somewhere between $2500 and $6000 for good used cars that you buy; if you do a good job shopping you shouldn't need more than that.
• Have a general idea of several kinds of cars to look for which are hard to go wrong with.
• Somewhere in the early 90's the Japanese started making several kinds of cars to live longer than the guy who owns them, most notably the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry. There are several other Japanese makes which are generally good as well. Volkswagans are still a good idea, and the Chrysler cab-forward cars are a bargain used.
• The little Neon in particular is worth looking at. The Neon is a fast car with superb handling characteristics which gets unreal gas mileage and can often be bought cheap because almost every single one prior to the late 98 models had to have the head gasket replaced around 80K miles. In real-world terms this often means you can buy a 96 or 97 neon with 70K miles on it for $1500 or $2000, immediately have the headgasket and timing belt replaced on it, and you're set for nearly forever for around $2500 or $3000.
• Avoid cars which are spectacularly difficult to work on. A job on a car which is overly difficult to do often simply never gets down. Cars I would avoid for this reason would include Ford cars with the 6-cylindar duratec engine, the 6-cylindar camry, the Kia sportage, and several others. If you can't picture how you'd change the plugs on a car, don't buy it; the mechanic probably can't picture it either.
• No well-built modern car needs more than a 4-cylindar engine anymore. The Neon, Stratus, Accord, Camry, and any number of other cars are faster than anybody needs with four cylindar motors, and nobody needs to be spending money on gasoline unnecessarily.
• Use synthetic oil in all your vehicles, keep track of things like ignition wires, plugs, brake disk pads, air filters, etc. etc. The owner can still do most of that sort of thing himself/herself.

[The Other Harry]

but selling a car with an unknown problem when you're honest is an incredibly stressful proposition. If I knew what was causing that light--but I don't.

I'm warning you. It will almost certainly cost more to make that light go off than you will ever get for the Buick.

[norraad]

I've often thought of that as a hobby, but isn't the hassle of the paperwork & fees a pain?

There are certain models in the late 80's early 90's range that if well cared for, like a gun, will last forever.

I know some have 500,000 plus miles.

I have an 87' Toyota LE van w/220,000 miles running like a top.

Change those fluids twice as often as you might think, that's the secret.

All the fluids, brake & steering too!

You'll never have power steering trouble or leaks if fresh fluid is kept in the system.

And to the person who asked if Lucas products were a long term fix, yes, but really, who cares, it's so cheap & good just use it anyway.

Lucas tranny fix is amazing, for pocket change I'm still running smooth as can be on a tranny I was told was bad when I bought it years ago(also for pocket change).

Which brings up another good point, if you know the good strong models out there, they can be had for penny's on the dollar when they start acting up because their owners haven't been changing the fluids.

If you flush'um out real good & keep good Lucas blood in them, who knows how long they can go.

Btw-Shhhhh...The carmakers would not like too many people to know these things.

[keithtoo]

First of all, where I live in TX, if you buy and sell fewer than 5 cars per year, you dont attract attention, and I NEVER pay tax on my profit - mostly because I never really figure all of my costs, as in parts, tools etc, into my deals. Its a hobby, not a profession. The licensing is not much of a hassle once you've done it a few times. I do pay tax on my purchase of course and my buyers pay tax on their purchase.

What I like to look for when I am not buying at auctions - which is a total crapshoot, even when you can start the cars and run them (in place) for a while - is cars in the paper with blown head gaskets. Replacing a head gasket is expensive when you have a shop do it, and it is something most casual mechanics wouldn't and shouldn't attempt. But I'll do it, and for about $100.00 in gaskets and a little time, I can add $1000.00 easily to the price of a car.

AS for those add-in aftermarket lubricants. I dont trust them, because I have no experience with them. I really cant see how those products can make a badly cared for car run too much longer and I dont want to sell something I'm not sure of to someone else. I have a conscience and when I tell someone 'it runs great', I want to know it really is.

[Kewlhand`tek]

1979 was the last good year for cars.....bleah american cars in 1979 really sucked.They were ugly underpowered and poor quality.late 60's early 70's were pretty good cars. cars made in the mid 90's were pretty good too even chryslers. but your two examples are pretty good.

[mystery-ak]

save for later and advice

[Slewfoot]

one more '77 station wagon. .The station wagon gets about 8 miles per gallon and is our car of last resort. It needs to be turned into scrap,
You didn't say if it is a fullsized or compact but at 8 mpg it sounded like a big one. 77 was the last year before cafe, if it is a big one it might have more value than you think. One mans junk could be another man treasure. At 25 years it is probably about to appreciate rather than depreciate. I would check with someone into collector cars before I scaped it.