'Oldest star chart' found

BBC NEWS ^ | Tuesday, 21 January, 2003, 10:50 GMT | By Dr David Whitehouse

[vannrox]

Very Interesting.

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[DannyTN]

That's not a star chart.

That's the first Sylvester Stallone movie and those are arrow notches on the back.

[Atlas Sneezed]

I'm unconvinced.

Any representation of the constellation would have some indication of the three stars of the belt, plus the sword.

These publicity-hounds are forgetting that just because we think of it as a hunter, doesn't mean that other cultures would. Moreover, many stars move noticeably over tens of thousands of years (I'm unsure about Orion, but I recall that the Big Dipper looked quite different a couple tens of thousands of years ago.)

[norraad]

Wow, & I thought I was old!

[Fiddlstix]

Bump

[KellyAdmirer]

Between his legs hangs what could be a sword

Hmm, now what else could possibly be hanging between his legs?

Sounds like ancient man sure had a lot of useless time on his hands. And why does every artifact from olden days always have to be interpreted as involving religious rites? Maybe in 32,000 years scientists will interpret Britney Spears Pepsi ads as being demented rituals to the moon goddess. Or wait, are they?

[Ace's Dad]

demented rituals to the moon goddess. Or wait, are they?

Ya got the demented part right, at least

[WL-law]

On one side of the tablet is the man-like being with his legs apart and arms raised. Between his legs hangs what could be a sword and his waist is narrow. His left leg is shorter than his right one.

Ah..right. Yes, that's a sword, or are you happy to see me?

[WL-law]

On one side of the tablet is the man-like being with his legs apart and arms raised. Between his legs hangs what could be a sword and his waist is narrow. His left leg is shorter than his right one.

Ah..right. Yes, that's a sword, or are you happy to see me?

[Bohemund]

Ping

[blam]

Thanks for the Ping. Already posted here

[KarlInOhio]

I couldn't find any movies of the proper motion of stars in Orion, but here's a page which shows the stars in the Big Dipper moving.

link

[FastCoyote]

"Oldest Star Chart"

Hell, that ain't Orion. That is a carving of Mick Jaeger, the oldest star on the charts!

[struwwelpeter]

in 32,000 years scientists will interpret Britney Spears Pepsi ads as being demented rituals to the moon goddess

In 32,000 years the religion of the "moon goddess" may be the only thing left.

[AndrewC]

These publicity-hounds are forgetting that just because we think of it as a hunter, doesn't mean that other cultures would. Moreover, many stars move noticeably over tens of thousands of years

Mammoth tusks grow on mammoths, and mammoths don't exactly grow on a farm. He did take proper motion into consideration.

[Boot Hill]

When all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail. When all you have are star charts, everything begins to look like stars. This "scientist's" theory has more holes in it than an Iraqi Republican Guard tank.

Dr Rappenglueck says:   "[86] is the number of days that must be subtracted from a year to equal the average number of days of a human gestation."

Baloney. Normal human gestation is 263-266 days, meaning that the number of notches should have been 99-102 not 86 if the good doctors interpretation were correct.

Dr Rappenglueck says:   "[86] is also the number of days that one of Orion's two prominent stars, Betelguese, is visible."

Baloney. If we neglect twilight, Betelguese would be visible for about 180 days per year. When considering the effect of twilight, there are three standards that could be used: Civil, Nautical and Astronomical twilight. Astronomical is the most rigorous of these and is defined as where the sun is 18º below the horizon. Subtracting 18º from both horizons means that Betelguese is visible for 146 days per year, not the 86 days that the doctor claims.

Dr Rappenglueck says:   "The 'sword' on the ivory tablet also corresponds to a famous and well-know feature that can be seen in Orion."

Baloney. No metal working = no swords and the Bronze Age was still 30,000 years in the future. Moreover, the concept that the stars in question in Orion might represent a sword is entirely a cultural presumption and it begs credibility to presume that two independent cultures would interpret the various star patterns the same way (especially when they didn't have swords).

Dr Rappenglueck says:   "Dr Rappenglueck allowed for this effect by using a computer program to wind back the sky."

Baloney. If the Orion constellation had matched an overlay of the figure on the ivory carving, you can bet your bottom dollar that would be photo number one in this article. Or at the very least, the good doctor would have claimed that it had matched up. 32,000 years equals a hell of a lot of proper motion and the shape of the Orion constellation would more likely correspond to road kill than a standing man with a "sword".

Typical BBC crap.

Regards,

--Boot Hill

[exmoor]

'Oldest star chart' found...it wasn't under Hillarys' coat was it ?????????

[Atlas Sneezed]

ROFL!

(I should have said that I recall READING that the stars looked different eons ago.)

[far sider]

Orion? You mean this guy?