Are there any differences between Conservatives and Libertarians?

1/12/03 | Sparta

[Sparta]

I've been reading posts by people who use the term Conservative and others who use the term Libertarian. I have a question for all FReepers, is there a difference between the two?

[hoosierskypilot]

I don't know. Just from what I've read on FR, I never got the idea they were for open borders.

Actually, I don't think I've ever read a statement by a Libertarian who stated he/she was a Libertarian.

For some reason, they never seemed the type in favor of unrestricted immigration.

[nopardons]

Because that poster has NEVER read the LP platform. :-)

[nopardons]

Then you haven't read many Libertarian threads , nor the LP platform. Do so. :^ )

[Little Bill]

Gee that sounds a lot like what the hippies preached back during the 60's...

Is is, throw in a little Ann Rand and you have Libertarianism.

[MattAMiller]

As a general rule Libertarians believe that government power is always anethma to freedom. Conservatives believe that government, when constrained within certain limits, can enhance freedom by supressing evils that prevent people from leading their lives unmolested.

Both focus on the liberty of the individual. This differentiates them from the modern left which believes that the self is socially constructed and an unimportant obstacle to erecting whatever cock-eyed utopia they have their eye on this week.

[supercat]

more tolerant of homo-sexuals,

Huh? How can you be more tolerant?

I'd say libertarians, unlike conservatives, are quite willing to tolerate homosexuals, but unlike liberals, do not want government to actively promote or "protect" it.

[nunya bidness]

You'll never find a good servant with that kind of attitude.

[budwiesest]

Libertarians are anarchists who wrap themselves in the Constitution for shelter.

You find a better shelter and I'll gladly wrap myself in it. This one's become a bit two-party tattered.

[Robert_Paulson2]

I thought libertarians believed in smaller, less intrusive government and lower taxes... while conservatives beleieved in using the unlimited power of the state to coerce their individual preferences on social issues...

what you can eat, drink, wear and which behaviors will entitle you to a tax credit... as a way to enforce their religious, or social preferences on others.

libertarians seem to abhor ALL gun laws. Conservatives seem to want some restrictions based on their own particular qualms... "some controls may be good."

libertarians seem to want folks to be completely free as long as they do not impact the lives of others... whereas conservatives can find a way to define EVERY liberty as an intrusion on something that needs to be regulated, taxed or outlawed... once again, inline with their particular religious or social views of propriety.

A taliban could conceivably fit in with the "conservative" agenda of lots of religious folks who agree with him on repression of women, controlling of their clothing and employment choices, or the consumption of alchohol and such.

A taliban could NEVER fit into a libertarian's mindset... as the concept of INDIVIDUAL liberty outside the collective fascism of Islam, is beyond the scope of their tolerance level.

Libertarians are very tolerant and many are EXTREMELY conservative in their social and religious lives... but would rather CROAK than have to force their way on others. Conservatives however, believe that the needs of the many outweigh the constitutional rights of the few, and for moral reasons, insist that THEIR moral leanings, would be much better for us all... if we were to codify them into our legislation, public education and even the constitution.

Conservatives can be democrats. Or republicans... as conservative is, to many of those who are self defined as such, a means to instituting their faith into governance. Be that christianity, talibanism, or communist socialism of the democrat party.

To me conservative USED to mean smaller and less intrusive governance... now that the movement has been coopted by the socialist conservatives, or "christian democrats" of yesteryears democrat party... I think many former conservatives are now calling themselves anything else.

I support a lot of conservative causes. But I support the governing concept of limited government, smaller police actions and a "preserve as much individual freedom" as we can attitude. Some conservatives, republicans and democrats, don't like that at all. to them, FREE INDIVIDUALS are the greatest threat to us being an ideologically pure or HOLY nation.

To me, if God wanted cookie cutter people, he never would have given us an indivdual conscience, or ability to reason on our own. That's how I see it.

[Democrap]

Here is the LP platform do you libertarians support it or not?

[nopardons]

You looking for a job, dear ? I doubt you have the necessary skills. ;^ )

[krb]

Conservatives believe in the principles set forth in the U.S. Constitution, and the vision of the Founding Fathers for our country.

Except for drug control, gun control, sex control, God control, and about 15 other controls...

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Conservatives are largely pro-life, anti-drugs and anti-immigration. Libertarians are for all three. Conservatives also tend to reject homosexuality whereas Libertarians do not. Conservatives understand that a certain amount of government is necessary, Libertarians think everyone is capable of monitoring themselves.

[krb]

There are a LOT of pro-life Libertarians. Even Harry Browne (the Libertarian presidential candidate the last 2 times) is for turning over Roe v. Wade.

[Bernard Marx]

they never seemed the type in favor of unrestricted immigration

One of the fundamental beliefs of laissez-faire economics (Libertarian) is that there shouldn't be any barriers, including borders, between job openings and job-fillers. Libertarians worship the market before all: read the Wall Street Journal editorial page. Or do a quick Google search for: open borders Libertarians.

Some will say that a welfare state like ours shouldn't have open borders. Read my post #38 above. You're either a Libertarian or you're not.

Most conservatives are small "l" libertarians to a rather large degree. But most of us believe the State has a limited and important role in making a nation-state work, whereas Libertarians scorn any State involvement; they're essentially anarchists. Most conservatives, like me, believe the most important function of government is safeguarding its citizens per the Constitution. After that we disagree a lot on how large a role government should play in daily life.

[Bonaparte]

Ah, Ayn Rand. From a Buckley interview --

You have sympathy for libertarian views. Are you at all concerned that libertarianism sometimes encourages moral relativism and sometimes spills over to loosen moral restraint?

Buckley: Oh, absolutely; very much so. The libertarian hubris--Ayn Rand took it to its extreme--really suggests the only thing that matters is your own satisfaction. Now, they will subtly acknowledge that your satisfaction might be affected by philanthropic enterprises, but that does strike me as cynical. What they are saying is that what matters is not that you have helped the poor; what matters is that you feel better, and if you feel better, then you are simply exercising your rights under a libertarian order. What they refuse to accept, what is denounced under Randism, is altruism. It is the notion that you might help the poor because you feel it is the right thing to do.

I am a presumptive libertarian, which is to say I believe a very hard case has to be made before the intervention of the state, but the presumption is rebuttable. In many ways, a libertarian would say it's not rebuttable, it's absolute.

[Robert_Paulson2]

damn... that was cogent.

Cut it out... this is all about drugs don't ya know?

[Texasforever]

Libertarians believe "Lord of the Flies" is a users manual.

[the irate magistrate]

Lurker !! Is that really you? How's are ya' man?

I'm still looking forward to you attending a FReep meet/ machine gun shoot down here.

What is a conservative anyway? They all think that only they have the answers.

[PizzaDriver]

Libertarians don't think in lock-step. We range from the "heinleinian' through "randian" to "jeffersonian" and "gallitian".
Government has purpose, but no Right to Grow. Just as my rights end short of your nose, government should be unobtrusive.
My rights include the right to suffer for my mistakes. The right to starve if I won't take a job flipping burgers. The right to freeze if I won't seek and earn charity. My right NOT to have children, I don't wish to support. My right to die from my vices, when I can not master them.
I have no right to the property or work of others. Nor do I have the right to prempt their victimless vices. I have NO right to inflict my vices on unwilling others. Nor to force my virtues upon strangers.
I have the right to offer you a price for your property, you have the right to decline. Government must do the same. I have the right to set my price for my Home, car, etc. When the Government wants taxes on a higher figure, they must be willing to buy it ASAP, at their figure.
I must be responsible for my actions and inactions. I expect the same from you.