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To: Bernard Marx
I don't know. Just from what I've read on FR, I never got the idea they were for open borders.

Actually, I don't think I've ever read a statement by a Libertarian who stated he/she was a Libertarian.

For some reason, they never seemed the type in favor of unrestricted immigration.

61 posted on 01/12/2003 10:28:32 PM PST by hoosierskypilot
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To: hoosierskypilot
Then you haven't read many Libertarian threads , nor the LP platform. Do so. :^ )
63 posted on 01/12/2003 10:32:50 PM PST by nopardons
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To: hoosierskypilot
they never seemed the type in favor of unrestricted immigration

One of the fundamental beliefs of laissez-faire economics (Libertarian) is that there shouldn't be any barriers, including borders, between job openings and job-fillers. Libertarians worship the market before all: read the Wall Street Journal editorial page. Or do a quick Google search for: open borders Libertarians.

Some will say that a welfare state like ours shouldn't have open borders. Read my post #38 above. You're either a Libertarian or you're not.

Most conservatives are small "l" libertarians to a rather large degree. But most of us believe the State has a limited and important role in making a nation-state work, whereas Libertarians scorn any State involvement; they're essentially anarchists. Most conservatives, like me, believe the most important function of government is safeguarding its citizens per the Constitution. After that we disagree a lot on how large a role government should play in daily life.

75 posted on 01/12/2003 10:44:52 PM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: hoosierskypilot; nopardons; Sparta
hoosierskypilot says:   "Just from what I've read on FR, I never got the idea [the Libertarian Party] were for open borders."

From Article I, section 18 (entitled: "Immigration") of the Libertarian Party Platform, adopted July 2002, Indianapolis, Indiana:

"Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested."..."We therefore call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally."
The concept of nationhood is inseparable from the concept of sovereignty. And the most fundamental expression of that sovereignty by a nation, is control over their own borders. By the words of their own party platform it is plain that the Libertarian Party expressly advocates the destruction of the sovereignty of the United States by putting and end to any control over our own borders. No controls, no borders. No borders, no sovereignty. No sovereignty, no nation.

Such insanity (even after 9-11!) is why I have always seen the Libertarian Party as the Anti-Constitutional Party (despite their shrill protests to the contrary). And that is why I find myself in complete agreement with nopardons when he observes that: "Libertarians are the enemy within the Conservative Movement". I would only add that this enemy is a "fifth column" enemy masquerading as patriotic Americans that, ostensibly, only a want a return to a constitutional form of government.

Do I see every libertarian as an explicit enemy? No, some are just young, ignorant and still have some growing up left to do, some are blinded by bitterness and anger, while others have never come to grips with living in a real world which always includes some degree of subordination to power. You will hear Libertarians say that "statism" is a disease, and while true statism is such, so to is the passive-aggressive behavior of Libertarianism, also a disease.

Regards,

Boot Hill

164 posted on 01/13/2003 2:13:48 AM PST by Boot Hill
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