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Senate stunner for W tax plan
New York Daily News ^ | 1/10/03 | KENNETH R. BAZINET

Posted on 01/10/2003 2:23:55 AM PST by kattracks

WASHINGTON - President Bush's $674billion economic plan hit a wall in the Senate yesterday when moderate Republicans and centrist Democrats signaled it may be dead on arrival.

Sen. Lincoln Chafee (R-R.I.) said he'll vote against the package, joining at least four other GOP senators who hinted Bush's plan needs changes to win their votes.

"My fears have been borne out," said Chafee, who voted against Bush's $1.35trillion tax cut in 2001 because he feared it would bust the federal budget. "I can't see giving away any more of our revenues, which we're doing in tax cuts."

Chafee and Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-Calif.) announced legislation to block scheduled reductions in the top income tax rate as long as the government runs a budget deficit.

Four other Republican senators - Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine, John McCain of Arizona and George Voinovich of Ohio - also criticized the Bush plan.

Collins, who supports parts of Bush's plan, said his proposal to eliminate taxes on stock dividends - the heart of the Bush plan - "deserves further scrutiny."

"I would like to see further tax cuts targeted toward middle- to lower-income taxpayers who would be likely to put the money back into the economy," she said.

Snow and Voinovich told White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card during a closed GOP meeting yesterday that they have problems with the stimulus package.

The GOP has a razor-thin 51-49 majority in the Senate, so five possible defections likely would doom Bush's plan.

"It's going to be dramatically changed," a top GOP Senate source declared. "What you see now is not what you're going to get."

Adding to the turmoil for White House head-counters, most of the 12 Democrats who supported Bush's 2001 tax cut are not on board this time around. Centrist ringleader Sen. John Breaux (D-La.) called the tax cut "good politics but it is not necessarily good policy."

Just days after ceding control of the Senate to the GOP majority, Senate Minority leader Tom Daschle (D-S.D.) said, "I'm pretty sure they don't have the 51 votes."

A GOP source said the only Democratic defection the White House can count on is Georgia lame-duck Zell Miller, who is not running for reelection.

"The big dynamic is that the moderate Democrats are not going to cut the White House slack this time," the GOP source said.



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To: kattracks

Does The Media Ever Lie About The Economy?

"Bush Defends his $670 Billion Tax-Cutting Plan"-- AP.

Ah, don't you just love headlines like that? You'd think, from this, the President was some sort of criminal defendant, a la, 'President Bush, facing a 10-count criminal indictment for his role in a wide-ranging conspiracy to provide tax cuts prosecutors say are for the rich, defended himself in court today...' Well, you get the picture.

So, Democrats say we're in the middle of a deep depression (sure the economy the past 12 months grew by 3% and unemployment averaged 5.7% but that doesn't count because there's a Republican in the White House, which means unless the economy is growing by 5%, no 7%, no 8%, minimum, and unemployment is 1%, max, well, then, sorry Charlie, it's a deep depression -- so says Dan Rather. For Democrat presidents, the economy is officially booming unless it's SHRINKING by 5% or more and unemployment tops 25% -- see FDR and Jimmy Carter).

But, wait a minute, didn't this 'recession' or 'depression' or 'whatever' begin on Clinton's watch? (Commerce Dept. figures show the economy heading south throughout 2000 and had already slipped into recession by the time Bush took office).

What a dumb question. You still don't 'get it', do you? How many times must Dan Rather tell you?

Okay, one more time: If there's a Democrat in the White House, the economy is always booming, even if it's not, and everyone is prospering, even if they're not. Heck, ever notice how the 'homeless' magically disappear when there's a Democrat in the White House? Why, 3,000,000 homeless people suffering under Reagan each found custom dream homes and French Chateaus near the ocean as soon as Clinton became president. Poof! No more homeless problem.

Then, no sooner had heartless Bush took office, they were back -- back on the streets! But alas! now the number is 4,000,000, or 8,000,000 or whatever. (See the New York Times' special series, "If you vote Republican you'll be homeless and jobless and earth will burn up by Global Warming").

This GOP Prez=Depression/Dem Prez=Prosperity principle is how the booming Reagan 80s are now the days of soup kitchens, swelling unemployment, burgeoning bankruptcy, plummeting stock prices, impoverishment and homelessness -- oh those horrible, miserable, dreadful Reagan years! The Clinton 90s? Bubba, thankfully, ended the 12-year Reagan/Bush economic 'slump.'

And -- get this -- he did it even before he became "president." How so? Check this out: From June through December of '92, when Bubba spoke of "the worst economy in 50 years," the economy was actually sizzling at 4.1% GDP growth. So what was the media saying during this? The CBS "Evening News" with Dan Rather groused endlessly about the 'the faltering Bush economy,' and oh how much America needs Bubba to fix it. ABC's "World News Tonight" with Peter Jennings hammered away every night at the 'flagging Bush economy,' and oh how much America needs Bubba to fix it. The NBC "Nightly News" with Tom Brokaw became a series of nightly symposia on the 'ailing Bush economy,' and oh how much America needs Bubba to fix it.

Was the media lying, then? No, of course not! I'm stunned you'd even suggest such a thing -- shame on you. No, here's what really happened: The economy, back then, was mired in deep recession, even while growing because (sheesh, I thought I already 'splained this!) there was a Republican in the White House, and, sorry Charlie, but 4.1% won't cut the mustard -- unless there's a Democrat in the White House, in which 4.1% becomes dazzling proof the economy's booming. Remember: Anything less than 8% growth, under a Republican, equals recession; anything above - 5% negative growth, under a Democrat, equals robust economic recovery.

Bearing this in mind, since Dan Rather, we know, is always right, that nothing good can ever come from Republicans, then the solid 4.1% growth rate on Bush's watch must have been -- had to be! -- the Bubba-Rebound!

I know, I know, you probably think I'm just yanking your chain, so let me hereby present the (smoking gun) evidence.

Under the heading, Rebounding economy seen as boost, the Associated Press, days before the '96 Clinton re-election, wrote this: "All of a sudden, the 'Clinton crunch' that Bob Dole and the Republicans have been complaining about seems to be turning into the 'Clinton rebound...'...business activity has picked up speed...gross domestic product, the broadest measure of economic health rebounded to a..." 6% growth rate? No. 5%? Nope. 4%? You're getting warmer. 3%? Answer: 2.8% in the first quarter! Wow!

What was GDP growth in the third quarter '96? Are you sitting down? (Drum roll, please?): A whopping, sizzling, booming 2.2%! The press celebrated it as good news for Clinton.

Now, compare that with 3.9% third quarter growth in '92 (under Bush the elder) -- when the media talked endlessly about the ailing/flagging/faltering Bush economy.

Keep that in mind next time a report comes out and you hear how gawd-awful our economy is doing. Chances are, the media's up to its old tricks.

Question: How badly do Democrats want the economy to tank for '04? Well, bad enough to let the cat out of the bag.

Washington Post reporter Terry M. Neal on Thursday wrote "that while there has been much focus on President Bush's tax-cut plan, Democratic critics are hoping for one scenario: By the 2004 election it will be clear that the tax cuts have done little to help the faltering economy, while driving up deficits and derailing future economic stability. This anticipation is at least part of the explanation for why so many Democrats are lining up to challenge a president who at this point looks unbeatable."

Well, my friends, there you have it.

The Democrats are hoping for the worst, all to win the back the White House '04. They can give a lick about the country -- winning elections is paramount.

Remember *that* next time you hear them gripe about somebody questioning their "patriotism."

No Smoking Gun!

Meanwhile, chief U.N. 'Smoking Guns' inspector Hans Blix said Thursday he has yet to find any, er, 'smoking gun' in Iraq.

Speaking to reporters in New York before briefing the U.N. Smoking Guns Security Council, he noted that "we have now been there for some two months and been covering the country in ever wider sweeps and we haven't found any smoking guns."

His partner, chief nuclear inspector Mohamed Elbaradei, also fielding questions, was asked if he'd seen any smoking gun. "No, so far, I've seen no smoking gun. Absolutely no smoking gun."

Gunter Pleuger, U.N. German ambassador, told reporters after the briefing he'd seen not a hint of a smoking gun. "There's no evidence of a smoking gun, near as I can tell."

Critics say that perhaps if Blix and the boys spent more time in Baghdad and less time in New York, they'd have more luck.

Besides, the Empire State is the last place I would expect any smoking gun anyway, given the state's tough gun control laws. Heck, you'd be hard pressed to find even a cigarette with Michael Boomberg as Mayor.

In Baghdad, Iraqi officials seized on the news, noting that Iraq, like New York, has very strict gun control laws, so that no one should be surprised no smoking gun had been found. "We told you we had no smoking gun," said a gleeful Gen. Hossam Mohammed Amin, Iraq's chief liaison officer to the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection of Smoking Guns Commission (UNMOVISGC).

The General added that Sarah Brady, fierce gun control advocate who heads the Brady Center to Prevent Smoking Gun Violence, had been a personal inspiration to him.

"We even plan on holding our very own Million Mom March here in Baghdad next month -- that shows you how much we're against smoking gun violence!" Amin said, beaming with pride. "President Saddam is so committed to fighting smoking gun violence, that nominees to the bench must pass a strict 'no-smoking-gun' litmus test. We've just finished setting up local Million Mom chapters throughout Iraq and marchers will form a human shield to stop evil Bush from invading Iraq!"

In Washington, the Brady Center Thursday issued a press release, praising Saddam for his commitment to fighting smoking gun violence.

"With the coming Million Mom March in Baghdad, we strongly urge Bush to postpone any invasion, if only to avoid civilian casualties," said the release.

Kidding aside, all the pieces in Bush's plan are neatly falling into place.

Bush set out to...

--Prove how useless these weapons inspectors can be.
--While Saddam plays cat-and-mouse with inspectors in Baghdad, rapidly build up our force strength in the region.
--Assemble an anti-Saddam coalition -- i.e., 'coalition of willing nations.'
--Give Saddam enough rope to hang himself.

They don't call it Strategery for nothin'.

Great job, Mr. President.

Anyway, that's...

My two cents...
"JohnHuang2"


41 posted on 01/10/2003 4:34:17 AM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: snopercod
"Indeed. The senate needs a good enema. Repealing the 17th Amendment looks better and better to me."

Are you sure you want these lowlifes ( repubs and dems) to mess with the Constitution. They've already violated their Sworn oaths to uohold it by signing on to Bush's obscene and mis-named "patriot act" in addition to his Fatherland, oops, excuse "homeland " security law and of course, the CFR.

Can you imagine what these thieves would do to the Bill of Rights at a Constituional convention?

I await the flames.

FReegards

P,S. The ONLY difference between the parties is that the repubs will destroy our freedoms on a "piece meal" basis while the dems would do it at a faster pace, but, at least, the dems don't hide their agenda. I remind everyone that our "conservative" President and "conservative" republican controlled House has already spent $782,000,000,000 of NEW spending in 2 1/2 years. And the beat goes on.
42 posted on 01/10/2003 4:37:03 AM PST by poet
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To: kattracks
"I would like to see further tax cuts targeted toward middle- to lower-income taxpayers who would be likely to put the money back into the economy," [Collins] said.

Oh, the ARROGANCE of this! She likes the idea of giving back the people their OWN money, as long as she approves of what she thinks they will do with it! What business is it of hers?

43 posted on 01/10/2003 4:38:10 AM PST by nepdap
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To: Claire Voyant
"Senator Frist..."

Wouldn't it be marvelous if the new SML has a spine? This will be an early indication as to whether he can manage the job--Lott certainly couldn't.

44 posted on 01/10/2003 4:39:16 AM PST by Pietro
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To: ultima ratio
I agree. And guess what? Tom De Lay and the House Republicans will pass a version of the President plan that gives him twice as much as he's asking for. The Senate will say that's too much and offer to split the difference. Final result? The President winds up with 90% of his original package. Now that's good strategery and poker politics as only the Texas Hombre can play it. All the noises from the Senate are strictly for show since sooner or later the moderates will do what they always do - accept a half a loaf and call it victory. And we haven't even heard President Bush give the State Of The Union address yet.
45 posted on 01/10/2003 4:42:35 AM PST by goldstategop
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To: Pietro
Sen. Lincoln Chafee - RI
Susan Collins - Maine,
Olympia Snowe - Maine,
John McCain - Arizona,
George Voinovich - Ohio


RINO's All.
46 posted on 01/10/2003 4:42:42 AM PST by vannrox (The Preamble - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: 11B3
Another spokesperson for the DNC. The "Bush" economy. Where the Hell have you been, under a rock? Or haven't you begun to understand the cooked books and the bubble of the Clinton years? And yeah, right, expenditures are going up, so we NEED to pay more taxes. Go back to DU.

GWB has been in office for over two years. Unemployment is up, CD interest rates are down, the stock market comeback hasn't happened, the border/illegal situation is ludicrous, Mexican trucks have more access to US roads. GWB has grown the government involvement in education. We are encouraged to "spend, spend, spend", while more of those jobs manufacturing the things we purchase go overseas. GWB continually supports more spending and more government involvement in our personal lives. Which of these things has been an improvement since Clinton left office?

I believe in protected US borders, sending home illegals, cutting the use of immigrants while there are US citizens to jobs, much less US government with some connection between what is spent and how much money is collected, the PBA ban, English as the official language, getting our butts out of as many countries as possible, using US military to defend and protect the US. Put them on our Southern border instead of protecting other borders throughout the world.

So, who's the conservative? Are you trying to say that it is conservative to cut taxes while increasing spending and government programs? I'd like a connection between every tax cut and the elimination of programs that are not constitutionally mandated.

I really think that the Republicans in charge are going to have to deal with those who vote for them but not for it to be the "business first" party. And I'm done blaming the Clinton years for problems today. GWB has had time, he got anything he wanted passed after 911, now he has a majority of both the House and Senate.

And, please flame me instead of picking on other people who will be intiminated by that garbage and stop posting what they really think!

47 posted on 01/10/2003 4:44:33 AM PST by grania
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To: kattracks
RINOs are worse than democrats. They need replacing in every primary.
48 posted on 01/10/2003 4:49:25 AM PST by LibKill (In your heart you know I'm right.)
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To: kattracks
Does this entire plan fit on a single sheet of paper? If not, then all these RINOs are basing their decisions on nothing more than media bleating and their own petty personal hatreds. This should be pointed out over and over and over.

RINOs underestimate Bush at their own peril, just as the RATS do.

49 posted on 01/10/2003 4:50:19 AM PST by Timesink (FINISH THE DAMN GAME!!!)
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To: kattracks
Chafee and Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-Calif.) announced legislation to block scheduled reductions in the top income tax rate as long as the government runs a budget deficit.

This proves it's all a game right here. They want to hurt Bush, period.

50 posted on 01/10/2003 4:51:39 AM PST by Timesink (FINISH THE DAMN GAME!!!)
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To: freeper12
If we were talking about eliminating taxes, your post might have been worth the effort. We weren't. It wasn't.

If we waited until government reduced spending to advance the idea of tax breaks for citizens, there'd never be another tax break.

Revenues roughly doubled after Reagan's tax breaks. Spending outpaced increases in revenues.

Look I'm all for reducing spending, but we have to face something up front. Government never reduces spending. Ever!

Social Security, Medicare, Welfare... it just doesn't happen. I'd love to see these things all privatized. I'll die before they are.

51 posted on 01/10/2003 4:55:24 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Just remember... it took decades for socialism to take over, it'll take 1000 years to get rid of it.)
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To: kattracks
Chafee gives me a rash.
52 posted on 01/10/2003 4:56:37 AM PST by smiley
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To: poet
Good point, but wouldn't it be possible to hold a Constitutional Convention limited only to one specific subject?
53 posted on 01/10/2003 5:02:34 AM PST by snopercod (Repeal the 17th Amendment!))
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To: grania
Gania, you forgot the Mexican Social Security proposal that the administration is "studying".
54 posted on 01/10/2003 5:09:06 AM PST by meenie
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To: snopercod
Good point, but wouldn't it be possible to hold a Constitutional Convention limited only to one specific subject?

You mean like the one that was held just to tweak the Articles of Confederation?

55 posted on 01/10/2003 5:13:17 AM PST by Dahoser
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To: kattracks
these assholes fail to realize it's our money not theirs.
56 posted on 01/10/2003 5:15:50 AM PST by The Wizard (Go Bush, Go)
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To: snopercod
I don't believe so. It would open a can for these worms (pardon the pun).

FReegards
57 posted on 01/10/2003 5:16:40 AM PST by poet
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To: ultima ratio; goldstategop
Agreed. How many times does President Bush have to say "It's the American peoples money"...keep pounding them Mr. President.
58 posted on 01/10/2003 5:17:43 AM PST by PGalt
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To: DoughtyOne
Well I guess if you had half a brain, your post would have been worth the effort, but since you don't, it wasn't.

You must have me confused with someone that cares what you think.
59 posted on 01/10/2003 5:18:05 AM PST by freeper12
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To: freeper12
>>If we were talking about eliminating taxes,

And, bye the way, if you are going to argue that ALL tax decreases increase revenue, than eliminating taxes is just a natural extension of that.

If we go from a tax rate of 25% down to 20% and you sau revenues will increase, then a reduction from 20 to 15% revenues go up even more, and a reduction from 15 to 10 would make revenue go up again, and thus, if your theory is correct, a final reduction from 10% to 0% means that revenues would then again increase.

O bviously, that is not true and is not going to happen....so where is that magic number where decreases in taxes do not cause an increase in revenue?

You don't know, and neither do I...but it really doesn't matter how much money comes in if you spend 110% of it. Next time keep your nasty posts to yoursleef, and I'll decide for myself what is relevant to a topic.
60 posted on 01/10/2003 5:26:02 AM PST by freeper12
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