CALIFORNIA: 5-year-old ban in bars leaves owners, customers fuming

Appeal-Democrat.com ^ | 5 January 2003 | Scott Bransford

[Protagoras]

People with guns have taken over the restaurant. They are called fascists. People like you sent them. They are called cowards.

I don't smoke. If you tell me yourself that I can't allow people to smoke or not on my property, you will have even more difficulty breathing than cigarette smoking causes.

[luckystarmom]

I live in California, and I agree. I visited my family in Texas, and got off the plane and could immediately smell the stench of smoke. There were people smoking in the "smoking" section.

I really don't care what people do in their home, but I don't want to smell it when I'm eating, working, shopping, or out in other public places.

[SheLion]

Indian Casinos still allow smoking and I am glad there is a place for smokers to go. We are not or have ever been smokers and I hate the smell but we still go to the casinos including those in the Redding-Corning area.

Most casinos, to my experience, have installed huge smoke eaters. The air is clear as glass. You actually have to sit next to someone or look around in order to see someone smoking. The smell is just not there anymore, with the huge smoke eaters. I love it!

[kellynla]

You folks in Deleware need to toughen up. I have been all over the world and you are the only one who said it was too cold to drink, eat and smoke outside. I and no one I ever knew or saw had a problem. I have friends and relatives from NY to MN to CO and none of them ever had a problem smoking, drinking, eating and a few other unmentionables outside in the winter. Just push that snow to the side, fire up the grill and party down! LOL

[DoughtyOne]

How about telling his employees that if they want to be a waitress anywhere in California, they must spend eight hours per work-day breathing second-hand smoke? Should they have to do that?

I'm sure someone will say they should just fine other jobs. Think about it. Other patrons, workers and even the owners of establishments better cave to the smokers or they won't go out.

Good Lord. And they think I have a problem.

[SheLion]

You still continue to be obtuse about the difference between rights and "consensual transactions." Obviously you stopped learning and thinking, and nothing I say is going to make you stop and think about the underlying philosophy involved here.

You took this from a page out of Clintoon's book, didn't you? Commmon, fess up. I read somewhere where Klintoon said that! heh!

[philosofy123]

As I mentioned in my first comment, that I was a smoker. When the hostility against smokers started in the mid seventies, I used to smoke in my office at that time. I went to a meeting, and there were two people smoking, and the rest did not. The non-smokers sat at the very far end of the table. Simply by observing that I was annoying other people with my stink; I began to think that I needed to quit. Smokers must realize that they are the offenders. They must make every effort to gain acceptance by the rest of us.

Again, if I have so much gas, and I sat at a conference room passing gas continuously without any feeling that I am offending any body, or expecting others to accept me with my stink; then obviously I am either insensitive or messed up in the head?

[SheLion]

Freedom for me but not for thee
Freedom for thee but not for me
But thee and me will never be free
Until there is freedom for me and for thee
- Lexington Green

Beautiful! Thanks for reminding me. I love this flag, as well:

[KS Flyover]

From: The unfree society of Michael Bloomberg - By Pat Buchanan - August 19, 2002

Billionaire Bloomberg also wants the city council to outlaw smoking in all restaurants and bars, though in many neighborhoods, bar owners and their patrons like things as they are. Bloomberg has a problem more serious than a smoking habit. He is a blindly intolerant man who does not understand freedom, but thinks himself a great progressive. He is like the Puritans of old of whom it was said they opposed bear-bating, not because of the suffering it caused the bear, but because of the pleasure it gave the spectators.

The mayor calls smokers "crazy" and "stupid." And given the cost to human health of the habit, the mayor has a point and a right to express it. But which is worse -- those who know the risks of smoking and freely choose to smoke, or those who demonize, tyrannize and rob smokers, for indulging in a habit of which they disapprove.

The Founding Fathers knew. They put their lives, fortunes and sacred honor on the line rather than be hectored and harassed by the Michael Bloombergs across the sea. And what did these men, Washington, Madison and Jefferson, do for a living? They were tobacco farmers.

[Protagoras]

Two people walk into an establishment to patronize it. One person pulls out an item, lights it and stinks up the whole restaurant. The other person doesn't invade anyone elses space. pulls out a gun and threatens the owner of the establishment , claiming he has the legitimate power to set the conditions of behavior for other patrons.

Say it like it is, don't hide behind stinky clothing.

[Gabz]

They wanted to ban smoking but felt it would hurt their business. They were as thrilled as I was when the ban went into effect.

And that is fair to the owners that did not want the ban????

I am sorry - that is wrong.

It's no different than owner A demanding that owner B not book a particular band, because owner A can't afford the price of the band and will lose business to owner B who can afford the booking price.

Where does the owner of one establishment get off determining the clientele of another establishment????

And smoking patrons can't go down the street to stink up some other place to stick to the owners that were doing the right thing.

That may be true in California - but in a state as small as Delaware it is far from true.

It takes me only an additional 8 minutes to go to a great place in Maryland for my Friday afternoon date with my husband than to get to our favorite place in Delaware - and the place in Maryland is much closer to our daughter's school for pickup on Friday afternoon.

Gotta love it.

The establishment owners in Maryland sure love it. the ones in Delaware hate it.

[SheLion]

If they can't smoke, they just won't go out. Now there's an adult attitude for ya.

You want to pay my tab, I will go. But I refuse to pay for that personal abuse. Get a grip!

Why should WE spend our hard earned money on recreation where we are not wanted! We can stay home, be comfortable and save our money.

[Protagoras]

Good Lord. And they think I have a problem.

You have a big problem, you are a fascist.

[SheLion]

The local tour bus company is loving it - they have seen a huge increase in their trips to Atlantic City - their trips had dropped dramatically after the openning of the three slots locations in Delaware.

Gabz, I'm still curious to find out how NASCAR is going to handle Dover Downs. I hope NASCAR is so miserable there, they pull out!

[DoughtyOne]

Owner A wants to allow smoking. Owner B, C and D don't. Guess where the smokers are going to go. Yep, you guessed it. About ten minutes after this great idea goes into effect B, C and D allow smoking again. Look, it's either all or nothing, otherwise those who do the right thing are at a disadvantage. And non-smokers would once again have no place to go out to dinner unless they didn't mind trying to smell their food through a cloud of smoke.

Just because smokers don't want to taste or smell their food, that doesn't mean that every other patron must forgoe the pleasure.

[stylin_geek]

I know my day is going downhill when I'm compared to Clinton, or at least accused of quoting that hick. (sorry to all the hicks out there, probably just offended them)

[DoughtyOne]

But if the government says businesses can allow a known carcinogen to permiate the atmosphere inside restaurants, that's okay since it benefits you. Thanks for clearing that up.

[nicmarlo]

I think all the non-smokers who are offended by smokers should get up and move to the patio whenever someone lights up.

Good idea; they can enjoy the knats, the humidity, the rain, the snow, too. Total nature experience for them.

[SheLion]

Although the pictures are quite beautiful, Meek, they sure don't depict regular cigarette smoking! Smoking tobacco never gives me a "buzz-on." hehe!