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CALIFORNIA: 5-year-old ban in bars leaves owners, customers fuming
Appeal-Democrat.com ^ | 5 January 2003 | Scott Bransford

Posted on 01/06/2003 6:58:16 AM PST by SheLion

It's been in place for five years now, but many Yuba-Sutter bar owners and patrons said they have yet to become accustomed to California's ban on smoking in bars.

At establishments such as Stassi's Fourth Ward Tavern in Marysville this weekend, business owners were still fuming over the ban, which took effect in January 1998.

The ban - a first for the nation - was intended to protect bartenders from health risks posed by second-hand smoke.

Yet Roy Newlove, the owner of Stassi's for roughly 10 years, said it does nothing more than slow business and cause headaches for his employees. Like many, Newlove called the ban a misguided attempt to protect public health.

"I think if the government helps me one more time I'll be out of business," Newlove said as most of his customers nodded in agreement.

Many bar owners throughout the area agreed the ban is a nuisance that has diminished the charm of going out for a drink.

Debbie and Doug Erhardt, the owners of Field and Stream Tavern in Marysville, said business has fallen off by as much as $2,000 on weekends since the ban took effect.

Fewer people want to go to Field and Stream now because the smoking ban forces them to go outside whenever they want to have a cigarette, Debbie Erhardt said.

"Nobody wants to go outside in 100 degree weather or in the cold," Erhardt said.

Ernie Leach, owner of the Corner Bar in Yuba City, said the ban has not been a major obstacle to building a clientele. Since he opened the bar a year ago, Leach said he never had to face the difficulty of telling loyal customers to put out their cigarettes.

However, the ban often causes him to force customers outside when they want to light up, Leach said.

"I have people complain about it all the time, but they just have to go outside," Leach said. "I think a person ought to have a choice and especially at a place called a bar."

The ban also has caused frustration among bartenders, who say it has added stress to their jobs.

Nancy Simpson, 40, a bartender at Jack's Tavern in Marysville, said the ban hurts bartenders who smoke by forcing them to leave their customers behind whenever they want to light up.

The ban also encourages smokers to sneak drinks outside the bars so they can drink while smoking, she said.

"They walk out with their drinks and then I have to ask them to leave," Simpson said.

Newlove said the ban also adds noise to streets and creates unsightly - and sometimes unruly - crowds outside bars.

"As soon as you've got everybody outside you lose control," Newlove said.

Some bar owners have managed to circumvent the ban by taking advantage of areas not covered in its language. Since the ban is intended to protect bar employees - and not bar owners - some entrepreneurs have exempted themselves from the ban by making all of their employees part owners.

Since they technically have no employees, owner-operated establishments can apply for exemptions through county agencies.

In Sutter County, there are at least three bars which have obtained such exemptions. They include Yuba City bars such as the Spur, Dowers Tavern and the 21 Club.

No information was available Saturday on whether there were any owner-operated bars in Yuba County.

Mary Benedict, a part owner of the Spur, criticized the ban and said the exemption has helped her clientele stay steady.

"You're supposed to be able to smoke and drink in a bar," Benedict said. "Governments hurt small businesses too much anyway."

Some bar owners in Marysville said exemptions in Yuba City bars have affected their businesses.

George Matsuda, the owner of Daikoku restaurant in Marysville, said fewer customers want to come to the bar in his business.

"The people that like to smoke, they've got to leave and go to a place where they can smoke," Matsuda said.

Bar patrons also criticized the ban. Some called it an infringement on their civil liberties.

Smoking outside Stassi's Fourth Ward on Saturday, Strawberry Valley resident Dennis Travis, 61, said the ban sometimes makes him think of moving to a state where smoking bans aren't in effect.

Travis said public officials are going too far in their attempts to eliminate health risks.

"We're trying too hard to protect people," Travis said.

Marysville resident Carl Supler, 59, said the ban is an affront to veterans who fought in foreign wars in an effort to preserve civil liberties.

"It's just one more of our freedoms taken away," Supler said. "We fought for this country and most of us didn't come back. Now we've got these bleeding hearts telling us what we can and can't do."

 


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Culture/Society; Government; US: California
KEYWORDS: addicts; antismokers; attractivehabit; bans; butts; cancerforeveryone; cigarettes; individualliberty; istinksowillyou; iwilldowhatiwant; mrsgrundys; myrighttostink; nannystaterssuck; niconazis; pantiesinawad; prohibitionists; pruneylips; pufflist; righttoaddiction; righttopollute; rottinglungs; screwnonsmokers; selfishaddicts; shutupitsmyworld; smokingbans; smokingyourrights; stinkybreath; stinkyclothes; stinkyfingers; taxes; tobacco; worldisanashtray; wrinkledskin; yellowbellywhiners; yellowteeth
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To: WORLD SUCKELS USAS BREAST
Your wife must be a saint. Not because she is in the medical profession, but because she is married to such a narrow minded bigot as you.

But even if she isn't a saint, she is a far better woman than I to be putting up with the likes of you.

661 posted on 01/08/2003 12:33:42 PM PST by Gabz
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To: A CA Guy
I can see it being an issue, but it only comes up .005% compared to smoke.

How can that be??? You've stated unequivocally that EVERY "public place" is smoker-hostile in Kookiefornia where you live, so where are you exposed to that nasty shs? Maybe the town of "Perfect" isn't? Or maybe those dastardly molecules of shs creep out of smokers' homes and lie in wait to attack you on the street? Horrors!

662 posted on 01/08/2003 12:39:18 PM PST by Max McGarrity
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To: davisdoug
Do you have a feeling that this person may be suffering the effects of nicotine withdrawl?

I doubt it's nicotine withdrawal - I'm more inclined to think along the lines of being out of particular meds that normally cover up the obvious problem.

OTOH it could be that my reference to the anti-smoker drug dealer busted earlier today hit closer to the mark than was intended ;)

663 posted on 01/08/2003 12:41:41 PM PST by Gabz
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To: WORLD SUCKELS USAS BREAST
I do find it interesting that you personally attack me regarding the post of an acutal experience. Questioning intelligence etc.. We may have differences of opinions but I have yet to go on the attack. Your points may be taken more seriously if they were less poisonous.
664 posted on 01/08/2003 12:49:23 PM PST by davisdoug
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To: SheLion
We absolutely refuse to eat in any restaurant in Maine that do not accomodate smoking.

I was never much of a fan of the restaurants that banned smoking either and generally didn't patronize them unless necessary (such as business meetings).

My one major exception to that was always the Hibachi Japanese restaurant here. Their sushi bar has always been non-smoking. I get so into my eating that there are times when 3 hours will pass I haven't even noticed it. But that was also only a twice a year treat - my wedding anniversary and my birthday. Even only going on the days that have "all you can eat" it is something that needs to be budgeted for.

Hopefully I can find one just over the state line in either MD, PA or NJ before my anniversary next month. Because I will not eat in a Delaware restaurant and I wouldn't suggest anyone else do it either.

I'm not boycotting restaurants in Delaware because they ban smoking, because most of the ones where I used to frequent opposed the smoking ban. But I am boycotting Delaware restaurants because of the smoking ban.

The 18 inspectors Delaware has for the entire state to deal with cleanliness/sanitation in restaurants have as their priority the enforcement of the smoking in any and every business in the entire state.

Kitchen sanitation in Delaware restaurants has taken a backsteat to the enforcement of the smoking ban.

DO NOT EAT IN A RESTAURANT IN DELAWARE. SANITARY CONDITIONS ARE NOT IMPORTANT TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

I'm sorry - entering an establishment it is easy to tell if they permit smoking - you can't see what is going on in the kitchen.

665 posted on 01/08/2003 12:56:37 PM PST by Gabz
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Comment #666 Removed by Moderator

Comment #667 Removed by Moderator

Comment #668 Removed by Moderator

Comment #669 Removed by Moderator

To: WORLD SUCKELS USAS BREAST
This isn't about whether or not smoking is bad for you. It's about freedom. You don't get it.

When the Nazi's come for something YOU like, and they will, don't be surprised if no one lifts a finger to help you.

670 posted on 01/08/2003 2:39:42 PM PST by Republic of Texas
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To: WORLD SUCKELS USAS BREAST
I believe that was a lighthearted response (with LOL) to your initial response that "money isn't everything". Last I checked I was grown-up. I did notice that you said your wife worked in healthcare and you have friends in the healthcare field. They see the effects of SHS on a daily basis. My neighbors are: A thorasic surgeon, child trauma surgeon and a neurologist. We spend time together, one of them smokes and I know many in healtcare that choose to do so. We all know it is not the most healthy practice but this thread discusses the choices made with legal substances and they current legal atmosphere regarding smoking.
671 posted on 01/08/2003 2:42:55 PM PST by davisdoug
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To: AppyPappy
"Open a business and post a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed". Let me know what happens."

Apples and organges. Non-discrimination policies to ensure equal treatment for an act of birth is different from regulating legal consumption activities in private businesses. Having been a niteclub owner, I have some experience with this and, other than a few waitresses, most patrons had no problem with smoking and even expected it. Prior to the ban, bars and clubs did indeed lose business, they continue so. This issue should have been left to market forces.

672 posted on 01/08/2003 2:51:43 PM PST by A Navy Vet
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To: WORLD SUCKELS USAS BREAST
Actually my referring to your narrow minded bigotry is, by far, much more reasonable than some of the things you have been spouting around here.

I have never advocated that smoking be permitted anywhere and everywhere - NEVER. And you will NEVER see me promoting it, either.

I see both the forest and the trees - your problem is that your hatred of tobacco smoke and smokers has so blinded you that the fact these government mandated smoking bans are an infringement on the right of the owner of a PRIVATE business establishment goes right over your head.

You are the one that needs to remove his blinders - not I.

673 posted on 01/08/2003 2:57:04 PM PST by Gabz
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To: WORLD SUCKELS USAS BREAST
Actually - you are the one that started it when referring to lowering your IQ in response to one of my posts.

It might be a good idea to take some responsibility for your actions.

674 posted on 01/08/2003 2:58:34 PM PST by Gabz
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To: WORLD SUCKELS USAS BREAST
and everyone in there looks like they married their sister.

And you have the gall to question my IQ and my referal to you as a bigot?

I really think you need to take a good long look in the mirror.

675 posted on 01/08/2003 3:04:03 PM PST by Gabz
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To: WORLD SUCKELS USAS BREAST
You "lowered" your IQ to 95?? Oh, come now...there's no need to be ashamed of being "average." Or nearly so. Those of us who do have triple-digit IQ's won't tease you too much.

Tell you what, Sucker, I'll match your "studies" one for one with one caveat: You're not allowed to post references to newspaper articles, press releases or any anti-smoker organization and I can't post as references newspaper articles, press releases or any tobacco company. Neither of us can use "opinion" as "fact." How about it? You game, Mr. Mensa????

676 posted on 01/08/2003 3:08:39 PM PST by Max McGarrity
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To: Gabz
But even if she isn't a saint, she is a far better woman than I to be putting up with the likes of you.

Sorry, Mz Gabz, but I beg to differ. Maybe "far dumber, "far blinder," or "far less sane," but not "far better." Never.

677 posted on 01/08/2003 3:14:28 PM PST by Max McGarrity
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To: A Navy Vet
This issue should have been left to market forces.

Exactly.

I stopped by my favorite sports bar/restaurant this afternoon and chatted with the owner. He admits his dinner business has been up a little bit, since the Delaware ban went into effect. But it doesn't make up for the loss in his bar business.

Having been in the industry you understand that there is a much larger profit margin in serving booze as opposed to serving food.

He is seeing a minimum of a $200 a day decrease in his bar business just at happy hour. An awful lot of meals have to be sold to make up the difference in profit margin loss with those kind of numbers.

678 posted on 01/08/2003 3:14:55 PM PST by Gabz
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To: Max McGarrity
I don't think you will need to worry yourself about having to go through with that 'deal.'
679 posted on 01/08/2003 3:17:11 PM PST by Gabz
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To: Max McGarrity
Thank you, my FRiend, your vote of confidence is greatly appreciated.
680 posted on 01/08/2003 3:19:06 PM PST by Gabz
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