Did someone say FOOD?
Posted on 12/30/2002 8:36:21 PM PST by Pokey78
U.S. Fears Terrorists at Sea; Tracking Ships Is Difficult
U.S. intelligence officials have identified approximately 15 cargo freighters around the world that they believe are controlled by al Qaeda or could be used by the terrorist network to ferry operatives, bombs, money or commodities over the high seas, government officials said.
American spy agencies track some of the suspicious ships by satellites or surveillance planes and with the help of allied navies or informants in overseas ports. But they have occasionally lost track of the vessels, which are continuously given new fictitious names, repainted or re-registered using invented corporate owners, all while plying the oceans.
As they scramble to keep tabs on the largely unregulated and secretive global maritime industry, U.S. officials have no end of worries about how nautical terrorists could attack U.S. or allied ports or vessels, officials said. They cite such scenarios as al Qaeda dispatching an explosives-packed speedboat to blow a hole in the hull of a luxury cruise ship sailing the Caribbean Sea or having terrorists posing as crewmen commandeer a freighter carrying dangerous chemicals and slam it into a harbor.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
No it wouldnt.
However, we would have to learn all over again to start at the bottom. The unemployment rolls would be emptied in certain areas, and all this talk of inner city youth not having jobs, well, with all illegal aliens thrown out, American Born people would all of a sudden have jobs to go to!
Have a Happy Freep Year, 2003!
Did someone say FOOD?
Check your premises.
What IF: POTUS agrees with you and has demanded of the Joint Chiefs that they close the borders, and the most powerful military generals in the world have confided that they actually cannot be even 95% effective. Say he were to publicly mobilize and deploy (how COULD you do it silently?) And if it were not 100% effective and a large event occurs "post-closing?" How impotent would that make us look? I don't know that this is the scenario, but unless you actually believe that GW is a traitor, this reasoning is plausible.
Let's use a mechanical analogy for fun. Think of the economy as an engine, and motor oil as the lube of trade. Do you design a filter for the oil filler cap so that no impurities enter? Or do you design the best filter you can to clean out whatever might get into the sump (i.e. the new TSA)? Because, even if you filter out all incoming contaminants, you still have impurities from blow-by, internal condensation, and even by-products of "clean oil" (aka Lilly Whites like McVeigh).
For example of the latter, consider a fertilizer import. Do you halt it as contraband because McVeigh+terrorist trainer might build it into a bomb? Do you reject visas for incoming, but allow someone named "al Muhammed" or "McVeigh" to live freely and unsupervised in Chicago or Oklahoma City?
I suggest that a crackdown on the border necessarily is the first incrementalist step toward an internal crackdown the likes of which Butcher Reno could not even have dreamed of. Even if a "border closing party" was 100% successful, the next step would necessarily be to "cleanse" the interior of the country with the military. That GW does not take this first step actually makes me grateful.
Is that what we should be clamoring for? Usama would be.
02/01/2002 - Updated 07:35 AM ET NEW YORK (AP) — Osama bin Laden, in a previously unbroadcast interview done in late October, said of the U.S. war on terrorism : "I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in and the West in general into an unbearable hell and a choking life."
(FLAMESUIT ON)
I'm afraid I don't know much about the situation in the Phillipines, are you sure they are international terrorists or are they home grown?
In any case if terrorists attack us we are right to destroy them, but I think it's our foreign policy, more than anything else, that has made us a target for terrorism.
Where did I say close the borders?
Second; You appear to believe that we have to be 100% successful on the border or we’ll look “impotent”. That makes as much sense as a football coach saying, “We won’t put our defense on the field because if the other team scores a touchdown we’ll look damned silly.”
As 4Freedom so eloquently stated, “The measly 1,400 National Guard that were on the southern border after 9/11 reduced illegal alien crossings by 30% and had a similar effect on drug smuggling. So, what does Bush do? He sends them home, of course”
Third; I did not say that G.W. Bush is a traitor. Nor do I believe he is. But, how many people on Free Republic would be calling Gore a traitor if this policy were being carried out under his watch? I regret to say many would. The reason I say “regret” is that this phenomenon is indicative of “groupyism” that is inherent in human nature. We often see the, “It’s OK when my guy does it.” attitude in politics. And yes, Conservatives can be guilty of it too. We are human aren’t we?
As to your Osama quote, the quickest way to bring his nightmare to fruitition is for this governamnt to continue down the path of poor border security so that everyone becomes is a suspect - and that includes you and me. The government has continues to blur the distinction between citizen and alien.
And as a famous man once said: “A government that treats aliens like citizens, will ultimately treat its citizens like aliens.”
I do like your filter analogy. But it’s time
Navigating the treacherous
waters of a liberal culture.
The Phillipines and the Balkans show that the Islamists are on a worldwide march. Sooner or later they would have come after us anyway. IMHO, I'd rather take them out now than try to do so when they number 2 billion after they wipe out Europe and what's left of Africa.
Excellent post Barnacle…right on the mark. If the Pro-Illegal Immigration Apologists couldn't use Straw Man arguments and False Dilemmas to promote their open borders idiocy they would have little to say. Their irrational line of thinking which suggests that if we can't "perfectly" seal off the borders we shouldn’t do anything then to bolster border security is ludicrous on its face.
I particularly liked your Football Analogy. You effectively brought home the point with that.
And as a famous man once said: “A government that treats aliens like citizens, will ultimately treat its citizens like aliens.”
As you know, this is most certainly the case today where American Citizens are treated to the spectacle of our state, federal and local governments tripping over themselves to cater to every whim and demand of the immigrant community--legal or otherwise on the taxpayers dime. OUR government now sees fit to dole out taxpayer-financed government loans to immigrants that are unavailable to Citizens to go along with their free medical care, free schooling, food stamps, subsidized housing (the list goes on).
And when it comes to law enforcement there is two distinct set of enforcement rules: one for citizens and one for illegal aliens. In case there is any confusion, many of our laws don’t apply to Aliens but ALL LAWS apply to Citizens especially where the IRS is concerned.
We as a nation are well down the road where citizens are in fact treated like aliens and I don’t think George Bush is going to do anything but further alienate of citizenry of America.
BTW, have you ever heard Bush utter the word "Citizen" in his compassionate conservative rhetoric? It's not in his vernacular.
Have a happy and prosperous New Year Barnacle!
If you must mince words to avoid the fact that you branded George Bush a traitor, then I will give you a pass in the holiday spirit.
But you DID write, " But, how [Bush is] allowing and in some ways even promoting the illegal alien invasion of America borders on treason.
Don't try the "groupyism" on me. I'm for the federal miltary fighting the enemy on FOREIGN shores, not Houston or San Francisco.
You deride me for supporting the resistance to all out war within our borders. So be it. Such a thing should never happen---until a real foreign army invades our shores.
Nor should the other George W.'s Continental Army have been used to root out and kill Tories to make us all safe. I agree that there is evil among us, and I am glad that our federal military is not being ill tasked to rid us of them. It's dangerous, and I don't care if it were GW or Algore doing it, it's a bad idea. Improve the INS's effectiveness...fine. But I am asking you to consider in your infinite wisdom that the President may not be doing that because it may not be the best way to fight this enemy.
P.S. When German U-Boats were unloading sabotuers on the east coast, and tiny Japanese subs and Balloons were menacing the west coast, why did we not mobilize "to lock down our borders?" Could it be because the most effective use of men and treasure was to go to FOREIGN soil and kick the crap out of the enemy? This is why I ask you to "check your premises." Because maybe, just maybe, Bush is doing the right thing and what he is doing does not "border on treason," and you, perhaps, just maybe, are wrong.
If you are NOT a pro-illegal immigration apologist or a supporter of open borders idiocy....then put your critical thinking where your post is...
All I was asking to those who had insisted that Bush was doing this all wrong, (which you have apparently chimed in with,) is to merely support your criticism with a plan of action. WHAT IN THE HELL WOULD YOU DO?!?
There are 6 THOUSAND miles of borders between Mexico and Canada alone. I merely ask a question which you nor I have the answer to. Can our military line up and SEAL OFF our borders in any meaningful way to keep out evil-doers? One entire Division could place one man, what, every half mile or so for a single watch shift? I ask you to consider that our military planners have considered this, and just maybe: maybe it's not possible right now....which does not border on treason as Barnacle suggested. It's not comforting to know that we're not all-powerful, but we're not. Even if you could check a tiny percentage of the container traffic through Houston, you don't get ANY return from those that have already infiltrated our society, or those that will turn against us. I like the strategy of killing the foreign head and financiers of the terrorists, such as in Afghanistan, Iraq and NoKo.
I don't say we should do "nothing" to bolster border security...we should make the INS step up and do their job...and the FBI should chase down bad guys left and right and take them to court. But the Military, in my opinion, should stay out there killing bad guys out in the rest of the world--NOT IN MY BACKYARD--as the saying goes!!!
So I ask you to back off the "logical fallacy" adamancy with folks like me (non-Bushbots) until you realize that it's actually possible for you to be fallible as well.
Happy 2003.
Globalists have no love for the Constitution or any nation including the United States of America.
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