Court Rejects Lawmakers' Challenge to ABM Withdrawal

AP ^ | 12/30/02 | The Associated Press

[Jean S]

WASHINGTON (AP) - A federal judge dismissed a lawsuit by 32 lawmakers who wanted to stop President Bush's withdrawal from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.

The plaintiffs had contended the withdrawal, which took effect in June, was unconstitutional because President Bush had not sought Congress' approval.

U.S. District Judge John Bates ruled Monday that the lawmakers lacked standing to bring the case, and the withdrawal from the treaty was a political matter, not judicial.

The ABM Treaty was a vital arms control agreement between the United States and the Soviet Union. Bush claimed it became outdated after the Cold War, and the United States needed to develop missile defenses to protect itself from attacks by small countries with missiles and animosity toward the United States.

Bates said lawmakers could have tried political action to prevent Bush from withdrawing from the treaty. For example, they could have sought to deny money for anti-ballistic missile systems.

"The fact that plaintiffs have several political arrows in their legislative quiver underscores the reluctance of the courts needlessly to involve themselves in interbranch disputes," Bates said.

He also noted the lawmakers were not authorized by the House or any committee to bring the lawsuit, and lawmakers were unable to win support for a resolution to urge Bush to consult with Congress on the withdrawal.

"Permitting individual congressmen to run to federal court any time they are on the losing end of some vote or issue would circumvent and undermine the legislative process," he said.

AP-ES-12-30-02 1817EST

[princess leah]

WHO WERE THE 32 LAWLESS ONES! GOT NAMES?

[RightWhale]

They missed the critical point. The means of withdrawal was authorized by Congress at the same time the Treaty was entered. The President had the authority.

[Poohbah]

Well, IIRC, none of these people was a Senator. The House has no role in approving treaties.

Now, if Tom Daschle and his 49 fellow Democrat Senators filed the suit as an official action of the United States Senate, there'd be an interesting Constitutional question, and we'd finally get a definitive read on the issue.

The fact that he did NOT file the suit implies his agreement with the position that the Executive may unilaterally withdraw from a treaty.

[Grampa Dave]

How can a treaty/contract/agreement with a country, the USSR, that no longer exists be valid?

Only the Lunatic Left, their lawyers and the rabid anti Americans in the Senate like Osama Mamma Murray could even try to make the old 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty still valid and in effect.

[Hodar]

I wonder why this treaty was such an issue. In 30+ years, gains in technology, GPS, payloads and multiple warheads would make any existing treaty meaningless. What took 150 ICBM's then, could be done by a single rocket today.

[Grampa Dave]

How can a treaty/contract/agreement with a country, the USSR, that no longer exists be valid?

Only the Lunatic Left, their lawyers and the rabid anti Americans in the Senate like Osama Mamma Murray could even try to make the old 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty still valid and in effect.

Are any treaties signed in the 1930's with Nazi Germany and the Imperial Japanese still valid when those Axis members are no longer in power?

[Grampa Dave]

How can a treaty/contract/agreement with a country, the USSR, that no longer exists be valid?

Only the Lunatic Left, their lawyers and the rabid anti Americans in the Senate like Osama Mamma Murray could even try to make the old 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty still valid and in effect.

Are any treaties signed in the 1930's with Nazi Germany and the Imperial Japanese still valid when those Axis members are no longer in power?

[Poohbah]

An excellent point.

However, the withdrawal didn't cede any particular power to the President in that regard--it merely said that the United States or the USSR could withdraw on six month's notice.

Left up in the air is the specific mechanism of withdrawal, and there the clause that says that all treaties and laws made pursuant to the United States Constitution are laws, with an implication that they are subject to legislative and executive action in order to repeal them.

However, the United States Senate did not argue the point. Silence implies consent.

[Jean S]

It was difficult to find the names. I hope this source is accurate:
Oral Arguments Held in Lawsuit to Block President Bush’s Withdrawal from ABM Treaty

The thirty-one Members of Congress bringing the lawsuit are: Dennis Kucinich , D-10-Ohio; James Oberstar , D-8-MN; Patsy Mink , D-2-HI; Tammy Baldwin , D-2-WI; Peter DeFazio , D-4-OR; John Olver , D-1-MA; Sam Farr , D-17-CA; Barbara Lee , D-9-CA; Maurice Hinchey , D-26-NY; John Conyers , D-14-MI; Hilda Solis , D-31-CA; Janice Schakowsky , D-9-IL; Alcee Hasting , D-23-FL; Fortney (Pete) Stark , D-13-CA; Bernard Sanders , I-1-VT; Earl Hilliard , D-7-AL; Carolyn Kilpatrick , D-15-MI; Lane Evans , D-17-IL; Jim McDermott , D-7-WA; Bob Filner , D-50-CA; Cynthia McKinney , D-4-GA; George Miller , D-7-CA; Lynn Woolsey , D-6-CA; William Lacy Clay , D-1-MO; Edolphus Towns , D-10-NY; Maxine Waters , D-35-CA; Jesse Jackson , Jr., D-2-IL; Gregory Meeks , D-6-NY; Marcy Kaptur , D-9-OH; Jerrold Nadler , D-8-NY; Stephanie Tubbs Jones , D-11-OH; and Sheila Jackson-Lee , D-18-TX.

[Poohbah]

How can a treaty/contract/agreement with a country, the USSR, that no longer exists be valid?

Quite easily. The US and Russia formally agreed in 1992 that all extant treaties remained in force until their scheduled end dates (if any).

Additionally, by your logic, we would have had to surrender Alaska to the USSR in 1917, as the collapse of the Czarist regime would have invalidated the treaty by which we acquired that territory.

[Texas_Jarhead]

THanks.. The usual commie suspects

[Senator Pardek]

The usual list of America Lasters.

[Senator Pardek]

Additionally, by your logic, we would have had to surrender Alaska to the USSR in 1917, as the collapse of the Czarist regime would have invalidated the treaty by which we acquired that territory.

Not quite. The land was willingly ceded by Russia in 1867 - at that point it's in the possession of the U.S., regardless of what happened to Russia in 1917.

[Ben Hecks]

I think Patsy Mink withdrew from the lawsuit ;>)

[dadwags]

"However, the United States Senate did not argue the point ..."
_______________
Not only that, but, in my recollection, the ABM treaty was never ratified by the U.S.Senate in the first place .

[Jumper]

Another fine example of liberal bias in reporting, e.g., the failure to "mention" that all 32 are Democrats.... If partisian group of Republicans brought a lawsuit against a sitting democrat president you would never hear the end of it (even the impeachment of Bill Clinton had democrat support).

Bush is a man of silent strength. Look for the power of this American president to prove difficult for all these 32 when they run for reelection. My money is on the Republican party putting massive resources into these areas to bleed the democrat party financially while defeating 35%.

[Clara Lou]

The thirty-one Members of Congress bringing the lawsuit are: Dennis Kucinich , D-10-Ohio; James Oberstar , D-8-MN; Patsy Mink , D-2-HI; Tammy Baldwin , D-2-WI; Peter DeFazio , D-4-OR; John Olver , D-1-MA; Sam Farr , D-17-CA; Barbara Lee , D-9-CA; Maurice Hinchey , D-26-NY; John Conyers , D-14-MI; Hilda Solis , D-31-CA; Janice Schakowsky , D-9-IL; Alcee Hasting , D-23-FL; Fortney (Pete) Stark , D-13-CA; Bernard Sanders , I-1-VT; Earl Hilliard , D-7-AL; Carolyn Kilpatrick , D-15-MI; Lane Evans , D-17-IL; Jim McDermott , D-7-WA; Bob Filner , D-50-CA; Cynthia McKinney , D-4-GA; George Miller , D-7-CA; Lynn Woolsey , D-6-CA; William Lacy Clay , D-1-MO; Edolphus Towns , D-10-NY; Maxine Waters , D-35-CA; Jesse Jackson , Jr., D-2-IL; Gregory Meeks , D-6-NY; Marcy Kaptur , D-9-OH; Jerrold Nadler , D-8-NY; Stephanie Tubbs Jones , D-11-OH; and Sheila Jackson-Lee , D-18-TX.
(The list bears repeating.) The Black Caucus is well-represented. I notice Hillary didn't have the intestinal fortitude to put her name on this-- too much of a risk for Her Unprincipaled Highness. Well, McKinney is out of there. We need to get to work on the rest fo them.

[Poohbah]

Not quite. The land was willingly ceded by Russia in 1867 - at that point it's in the possession of the U.S., regardless of what happened to Russia in 1917.

True enough, but the end of a regime doesn't automatically invalidate any agreements, otherwise territorial cessions WOULD turn into these sorts of nasty international legal messes.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Are any treaties signed in the 1930's with Nazi Germany and the Imperial Japanese still valid when those Axis members are no longer in power?

If a new company moves into the old building you don't have a contract with them!