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Murray Has Guts (?) Enough To Stir Debate
Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | 26/12/2002 | Seattle Post-Intelligencer Editorial Staff

Posted on 12/29/2002 12:17:06 AM PST by DocFarmer

Sen. Patty Murray had the guts to raise an important question about the popularity of Osama bin Laden in some parts of the world.

At a time when America still hasn't started a review of the Sept. 11 attack, Washington state's senior senator showed more willingness to tackle needed inquiries than the federal government as a whole. If we want to assure a triumph over bin Laden and those who have twisted a religion to their own hateful purposes, we better be able to act like Americans of previous generations and work diligently to know our enemies.

Murray's remarks last week to an honors class at a Vancouver high school deserve good marks for tackling that tough assignment, and the ensuing debate across the state and even the nation fits American tradition.

Generally, Murray was right about bin Laden's activities in poverty-stricken Muslim regions. He has built roads in Afghanistan and schools in Pakistan, for instance. One news report refers to a Pentagon fact sheet that mentioned bin Laden importing heavy equipment used in hospital construction, which seems to back up Murray's reference to health care facilities. While her statement about bin Laden providing day care facilities makes little sense, there is apparently a long-standing rumor that he built an orphanage.

Murray spoke in broad, even overstated, terms about the lack of U.S. foreign aid in the region. But she nailed the underlying reality: We could do a lot better helping the poor in central Asia and Africa.

On balance, Murray did OK on the basic facts. But she deserves to be challenged on her apparent belief that bin Laden's popularity derives from treating poor people well.

Most of his support, we believe, stems not from any good works but from al Qaida's murderous attacks on Americans and others, including Muslims from many countries. Her discussion with the honors class would have been more enlightening if she had at least raised that possibility as she concluded her talk.

But her remarks and school visit certainly raised the level of thinking among the students. And the discussion that has developed on talk radio and in letters columns is, in most respects, worth having.

Even in a war, a democracy should be strong enough to allow healthy debates about the nature of its foes. During World War II, America launched massive efforts to understand Japan's political psychology -- and used the results in crafting propaganda and diplomatic strategies. Books about Japan and Germany were widely published.

This state, with its sharp east-west political differences, is particularly fertile ground for healthy argument about any aspect of the war on terrorism. As a poll conducted recently for the Seattle Post-Intelligencer showed, the Seattle area is considerably more skeptical about military action against Iraq than the rest of the state.

Is the debate producing some political discomfort for Murray? Yes, and that's fine, although some of the criticism has been hot air. Washington state GOP Chairman Chris Vance and conservative talk show commentator Rush Limbaugh called on her to apologize. For speaking frankly about how America is perceived by enemies? That's not a matter for apology. Not in America.

Beyond the spin and the blatant attempts to manufacture a political issue, there's still value in the debate. It's important -- vitally so -- to talk about the nature of our enemies and how we most effectively respond to their murderous assaults.

That's exactly the discussion she deliberately stirred in a Vancouver class. And now the debate has spread much more widely. Good for Murray.

(Excerpt) Read more at seattlepi.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: editorial; laden; murray; osama; postintelligencer; seattle; usama
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What a load of codswhallop! If you'd like to tell the Seattle P-I what you think of them, please feel free to send them a response at editpage@seattlepi.com. I know I plan to!
1 posted on 12/29/2002 12:17:06 AM PST by DocFarmer
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To: DocFarmer
Sen. Patty Murray had the guts to raise an important question about the popularity of Osama bin Laden in some parts of the world.

I don't recall the Seattle PI giving a pass to another Senator suffering from Foot-in-Mouth Disease......

"Sen. Trent Lott had the guts to raise an important question about the popularity of Strom Thurman in 1948 in some parts of the America."

2 posted on 12/29/2002 12:29:31 AM PST by Polybius
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To: DocFarmer
What a bunch of crap! It amazes me how the liberal media can take pure stupidity and spin it into something like "guts" or intellectual tripe. God, how I pray that the recent conservative tilting of the country continues. These (the liberals) people have no clue!
3 posted on 12/29/2002 12:30:27 AM PST by Lando Lincoln
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To: DocFarmer
Ummm .. If Bin Laden was so well liked as Senator Murry claims then why were majority of the people from Afghanistan happy to see him and his gang of thugs go??

As for those schools he built .. who attended? ..

If I recall Afgan/Islam women/girls were not allowed to attend or or to even teach .. If I recall weren't they either tortured or killed if they were caught teaching??
4 posted on 12/29/2002 12:31:33 AM PST by Mo1
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To: DocFarmer
Looks like Sen Murray is starting to feel a little heat and the Seattle Times is trying to cool the flames.

Good that the leftist bee-itch is catching some crap. Afterall she did throw the BS out first.

5 posted on 12/29/2002 12:34:05 AM PST by SeeRushToldU_So
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To: DocFarmer
Let us take this opportunity to applaud Senator Murray's, er, ah, ...courage?

.

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.

.

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Maybe nobody will notice her egregious and inflammatory screw up....

6 posted on 12/29/2002 12:34:20 AM PST by okie01
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To: DocFarmer
I did write them a scathing letter, but you can see the subject is going by the wayside, without the media keeping it alive!
oreolady
7 posted on 12/29/2002 12:39:05 AM PST by oreolady
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To: DocFarmer
Ya… bin Laden really turned that rat-hole Afghanistan into a shining city on the hill…

He built all those roads… Schools for little girls and boys… Indoor plumbing and all…

They really liked the justice system he put in place too… That's why they loved him so…
8 posted on 12/29/2002 12:41:28 AM PST by DB
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To: DocFarmer
Greetings!

I read your editorial with great interest - and great disgust.

Sen. Patty Murray's comments to students went far beyond those required to foster debate. They were meant to glorify the "good works" of a known terrorist and murderer. They made claims about Usama bin Laden that were patently untrue, why denying the verifiable charity of the citizens and government of the United States.

Usama bin Laden has built no day care centres. What few schools he may have built have been madrassas, used for the indoctrination of hatred. There is no evidence to suggest that he has done any public works projects out of the kindness of his own heart. And yet, Sen. Murray bald-face lied to these students. She has no evidence to back up her claims because there is none.

Sen. Murray also said that the US has not been assisting countries like Afghanistan. Bunk. The US government sent $177 million in aid to Afghanistan BEFORE 9/11. It has sent far more in the intervening time. It also got rid of an oppressive government (the Taliban - remember them?) and helped provide greater freedom for their citizens. Doesn't sound all that despotic to me.

The comments of Sen. Murray are already making the rounds on pro-bin Laden and pro-Taliban sites in the Middle East and elsewhere. I'm sure your glowing praise of her words will also pop up there soon, as further evidence of support for their evil.

Senator Patty Murray is a traitor. I use that word carefully but correctly. If you doubt my assessment, I suggest you read the US Constitution. You know, the document that Sen. Murray swore to uphold and protect. Specifically, read Article III, Section 3. She is demonstrably providing aid and comfort to the enemy.

Sen. Murray should be impeached from the US Senate and tried for treason. As for your support of her, I'd strongly suggest you rethink your position. It does not do you credit.

Many thanks.

Doc Farmer
Doha, Qatar
9 posted on 12/29/2002 12:47:59 AM PST by DocFarmer
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To: DocFarmer
Fine note..

I tried twice to compose one .... but I just can't remove enough profanity to get published, and still convey my splean based "fury"...

Sadly, our Senate is home to several incredibly corrupt and stupid critters... The expression "enemy within" comes to mind.....

Semper Fi
10 posted on 12/29/2002 1:07:17 AM PST by river rat
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To: DocFarmer
The Post-DeIntelligencer editorial staff never praised Trent Lott's guts for stirring a debate about the state of race relations in the U.S since the late 1940s. But wait - Patty Murray bashed our country and is liberal circles that's regarded as a sign of how "courageous" and "flinty" an individual is. If poor Patty Murray had openly endorsed Jim Crow, she'd be booted from the Senate pronto, but since she "only" praised Osama bin Laden, it goes on to show how "right" her critique of America has turned out to be. Question For The End Of 2002: are morons born on the Left Coast or do they make em? The P-DI's idiocy tell us all we need to know about the pallor of Blue State America - and its a condition far from healthy. And Murray has still got to go!!!
11 posted on 12/29/2002 1:10:42 AM PST by goldstategop
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To: Polybius
I don't recall the Seattle PI giving a pass to another Senator suffering from Foot-in-Mouth Disease.....

You got to understand that the PI is the same newspaper that gave an editorial recommendation to Congressman Jay Inslee, when the Seattle Times and the Bellvue Eastside Journal both endorsed his opponent. The PI came out and defended McDermott, when he became a poster boy for those who want to kill Americans.

An interesting poll fact that has people's panties in a bunch, it that the majority of people in Seattle oppose war with Iraqu, but that the majority of the people in the rest of the state favor war with Iragu.

Seattle and the PI are out of touch with the rest of the state and with much of American.

12 posted on 12/29/2002 1:12:41 AM PST by Robert357
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To: DocFarmer
And exactly why is "intelligence" part of this paper's name?
13 posted on 12/29/2002 1:54:03 AM PST by fightinJAG
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To: DocFarmer; All
Dear Sirs:

I have just read your editorial with great interest and at the same time absolute disgust and shock.

Sen. Patty Murray's comments will do nothing to foster debate and help Americans to understand what they up against. What they do is to mislead and confuse.

Seeing first hand the so called "charity work" that Senator Murray claims Osama Bin Laden has done will open your eyes to the truth.

Lauding a terrorist and murderer, whom the United States is at war with is absolutely disgusting, shameful and perhaps treasonous.

A simple question. Would your paper have lauded Adolph Hitler during World War 2 for building the autobahn and bringing prosperity to Germans after World War 1?

The problem is that the majority of Americans have absolutely no idea what they are up against. What you are facing is an idealogical epidemic.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/101383_murrayed.shtml

I would be honored to host any of your editorial staff here and welcome them to Malaysia. I would take them on a tour of Osama Bin Laden's so called "day care" centres and schools. Trust me when I say that you will be shocked beyond belief.

What an offer!! Come and see for yourself !! Do you really want to see and report the truth???

You will see school age children from both rich and poor families who become brainwashed using a combination of techniques including sleep deprivation, poor diet and beatings.

You will see children who over months are taught nothing but hatred day and night, who get no more than three or four hours of sleep a night and subsist on a daily diet than consist of a small amount of rice, one hard boiled egg and a handful of dried fish a day.

Osama bin Laden and his associates in South East Asia build thousands of these madrassas (religious boarding schools) that serve no other purpose than to spread an idealogy of hatred.

Osama bin Laden's so called "charity" as described by Senator Murray is only to serve his own purpose and that is to establish "Darul Ehsan" which is Islamic prophecy.

What Senator Murray describes and love would be better described as Stockholm's Syndrome.

Regards,

LHM

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

14 posted on 12/29/2002 1:57:43 AM PST by expatguy
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To: fightinJAG
And exactly why is "intelligence" part of this paper's name?

I suppose it wants to feel good about itself...
15 posted on 12/29/2002 2:08:26 AM PST by DocFarmer
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To: expatguy
Excellent letter! Lord knows they'll never have the guts to publish it (or mine, for that matter), but at least they should start to get the message that they're singing from the wrong choirbook...
16 posted on 12/29/2002 2:10:36 AM PST by DocFarmer
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To: fightinJAG
One definition of post- is "behind; posterior to"--they are definitely behind on intelligence.
17 posted on 12/29/2002 2:14:56 AM PST by skr
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To: skr
they are definitely behind on intelligence.

Either that, or their intelligence is located in their behind...
18 posted on 12/29/2002 2:35:29 AM PST by DocFarmer
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To: DocFarmer
An informative discussion on FREEREPUBLIC.com regarding a WorldNetDaily.com article by Joseph Farah: "MURRAY PUSHED FOR AID TO TALIBAN BEFORE 9-11 Senator Urged Bush Administration to Send $30 Million to Bin Laden Hosts" (122602)

MuslimThai.com/TALIBANonline: A WorldNetDaily article "DEMOCRAT SENATOR PRAISES BIN LADEN" reposted on TALIBAN ONLINE by "Pak Taliban." (ARTICLE NOTE: The article is in reference to Senator Patty Murray D-Wa.) (122302)

19 posted on 12/29/2002 2:37:03 AM PST by Cindy
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To: DocFarmer
...Generally, Murray was right about bin Laden's activities in poverty-stricken Muslim regions. He has built roads in Afghanistan and schools in Pakistan, for instance...

Yes he did. The roads made it easier to get recruits in and out of his terrorism training camps which were fed by his wahhabi schools in Pakistan that teach hatred for Christians and the west.

I'm also sure Sen. Murray and the Seattle PI are proud of Bin Laden's investment partner the Taliban who killed women and children for sport, funded their activity by providing opium to western nations, and enforced Islamic law upon its citizens that pushed Afghanistan back to the 12th century.

20 posted on 12/29/2002 3:17:26 AM PST by Oldeconomybuyer
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