Why men don't like church: testosterone

The Ottawa Citizen ^ | Sunday, December 22, 2002 | Emanuella Grinberg

[freeforall]

Why men don't like church: testosterone Skipping services typical of engaging in 'short-sighted' risks

Emanuella Grinberg The Ottawa Citizen

Sunday, December 22, 2002

The risk-taking impulse that makes more men than women commit crimes is also the reason men are more likely not to be religious, says a sociologist.

"It seems that not being religious is a form of risk-taking, consistent with other patterns of short-sighted behaviour in men," said Rodney Stark, a professor of sociology and comparative religion at the University of Washington, whose study will be published in The Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion.

"Every minister knows it's harder to get the guys to church than the women," he said. "We ought to be asking why this is."

Biological differences between men and women mean that men are more likely to have an "underdeveloped ability to inhibit their impulses," he said. "Especially those involving immediately gratification and thrills."

Mr. Stark based his conclusions on World Values Surveys, a poll of residents in 57 countries, with about 1,000 respondents in each country, which included the U.S., most European countries, Mexico, Brazil, Japan, Turkey, China and India. The results showed that there were sex differences everywhere, even in religions that are very male-centred, such as Orthodox Judaism.

Mr. Stark and fellow sociologist Alan Miller published another paper based on whether gender socialization or differences in social power played a role in religiousness. Studies have shown that career women are just as religious as housewives, he said.

Mr. Stark isn't satisfied with the notion that women are socialized to be more nurturing and have more time for worship than men. For him, it is a matter of gender that makes men less religious, but not a matter of the socialization of genders, said Mr. Stark.

"It used to be said that women were socialized to raise the kids and take care of the home, but when you compare a career woman to a housewife, you see that both are still a heck of a lot more religious than any man."

He says that if not a product of socialization, low rates of male religiousness can be attributed to physiology, much like higher instances of crime among men compared with women.

"There are big gender differences among Christians, Orthodox Jews and Muslims, but in each case, more women are going to more services and saying they adhere to religious mores than men. If it were a matter of socialization, it would show up in the results," he said.

Mr. Stark also said his findings are consistent with the beliefs of criminologists across North America who find aggression more prevalent in men than women.

"High testosterone levels have been proven to make men more likely to commit crimes. The tendency in men toward risky behaviour keeps turning up even where socialization is different, and so does crime and delinquency."

© Copyright 2002 The Ottawa Citizen

[thulldud]

the Bible is pretty clear on that -- hellsville for the little children

Huh?

"And they were bringing to him little children, that he should touch them: and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw it, he was moved with indignation, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me; forbid them not; for to such belongeth the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall in no wise enter therein. And he took them in his arms, and blessed them, laying his hands upon them."

Mark 10:13-16

Heh, I always liked this "get out of jail free card" of a religious concept. I know a few Christians closely who hold this view and it basically means they can do anything they like and still get to Heaven because they "believe."

I don't see you actually quoting these acquaintances to such effect as this view you complain of. Maybe you don't know these people as well as all that. I submit that your statement is merely a caricature.

I don't know your acquaintances myself, but if you were to tar ME with that same brush, I should direct you to James 2:19 and the surrounding context; also Romans 6:1 and the following discussion. I suspect that they would also.

[Capriole]

I just noticed something. There's heavy homosexual overtones in both religion and football..."He knelt down and accepted the body of Christ".

Uh, you got your syntax a little wrong there, friend, and it's that that's putting a homosexual overtone in your view of Christianity. There is noplace in the Scriptures or anywhere in standard liturgy in which one says, "He accepted the body of Christ." The Body of Christ is a term used in the Scripture for the Church, the whole group of all believers everywhere, not one specific building or denomination. One doesn't accept the Body of Christ, but joins them. With this understanding--that the formulation you used is not one Christians use--you can see that there's nothing gay about Christian terminology.

[Reeses]

I was referring to my boyhood Catholic experience. Kneeling down in front of an unmarried priest and having a white substance placed on my tongue was not how I wanted to spend my Sundays.

[Capriole]

The reason that men don't like church is the same reason that little boys don't like to sit still. It's boring. There's no action and it often takes supreme concentration to get through the often repetitious ritual to the intellectual meat. There is great room for distraction and day-dreaming.

You make an excellent point. Most mainstream denominations do worship in a manner that's supremely boring: the same tired hymns, the same tired arrangements, the tepid, tiresome sermons about, really, nothing. No wonder the guys hate it.

I have two comments to make about this:

1. This--the boredom factor--is probably part of the reason mainstream churches are losing membership so fast while nondenominational congregations are growing at a log rate. They're growing so fast, in fact, that traffic management is a big problem. Our own church, constructed last year to hold 2000 worshippers at a time, is already bursting at the seams though it offers 3 services each weekend plus webcasts plus services by video in a satellite center. Another vast new nondenominational church nearby is continually under construction as it seeks to accommodate the floods of new communicants; the place is already big enough to put on a Superbowl. People are joining because they're hungry for the message these churches are putting out, and they're delighted with the fascinating, closely-reasoned, involving sermons. Half of the membership in these places is male.

2. It's not right to think that we should stop going to church simply because we find it boring. We're not there to be entertained. We're there to learn about God and to worship him, not to be thrilled. You want thrills, go to a NASCAR race. You want to fix your life, get down on your knees and stop demanding that God gratify your particular tastes in entertainment.

[Kevin Curry]

The reason that men don't like church is the same reason that little boys don't like to sit still. It's boring. There's no action and it often takes supreme concentration to get through the often repetitious ritual to the intellectual meat. There is great room for distraction and day-dreaming.

It isn't intellectual meat that draws the believer. It is spiritual water. Once it has been tasted, nothing else will suffice.

True religion, true Christian religion, requires personal sacrifice and self-discipline. It is about service to God and others--not about being entertained.

The natural man cannot understand this. It is wholly counterintuitive.

[Kevin Curry]

. . . except when they grab the hot coals and try to burn out the eyes of us disbelievers.

That's terrible. When did this happen? Did you notify the police?

[Let's Roll]

An appropriate thread for a miracle, eh?

[Mortimer Snavely]

I avoid Church because I am wearied by evangelicals and charismatics who use the Bible as a totemic object and recite from it as if they were intoning magical incantations. I object to the idea that humans uttering words can manipulate the universe of time and matter. I resent preachers comitting errors of historical fact and inferring that I am possessed by Satan for objecting to those errors. It has been my observation that people who rely on prayer and charismatic, euphoric, religious enthusiasm as decision making tools tend to screw up their lives and the lives of those around them.

In the affairs of this world, one is not saved by faith, rather, one is saved by its absence. The Apostolic Age and the miracles associated with that Age are over. God is no conjurer, pulling financial rabbits out of hats. Financial well-being is the result of sober minded serious effort and cold, calculating analysis. Religion burns up money almost as fast as politics and cocaine. One should pray for moral backbone and that one reflect well on one's faith, family, and country, but the relentless attempts to find the correct combination of words, Bible verses, tithes, and love offerings to make critical life decisions is delusional thinking and those who advocate it should be kept far away from impressionable adults and children.

[Mortimer Snavely]

Try antithesis.com .

Remember the way Gideon verified that it was God actually talking to him, and that he wasn't experiencing some command hallucination.

[Junior]

Those the same patterns that are responsible for every major development in Western civilization? We should ALL be so myopic ...

Why do men write poetry, design grand buildings, create symphonies or do anything for that matter? To impress the babes. If it weren't for women we'd still be living in caves...

[XBob]

9 - "People of the cloth tend to have the lowest IQ and MAT scores of all the professions, which make conversation and other association with them a burden. I do not believe people once lived to be 900 years old."

Yea, they can't even seem to figure out the error of 900 'moons', being mis-interpreted as 900 'years', so that people in their 70's (while ancient in terms of average maximum age of perhaps 40 in their day), is not abnormal.

[William Terrell]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but even nowadays don't men run the churches? Whenever I see a quote from a church leader or official it seems to always be attached to a male name.

[ovrtaxt]

I completely agree. Most denominational crap that passes for real church is the most emotion driven lamebrain stuff in the world. Where is the healing? The miracles? the devil destroying spiritual violence of radical mercy and love?

" The Kingdom of God suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."

When real Christianity shows up again, church won't be boring. When it matches what the Bible says it should be, men will come back to church.

[tm22721]

Church is an endeavor of men, not God.

BUMP

[IronJack]

Why do men write poetry, design grand buildings, create symphonies or do anything for that matter? To impress the babes. If it weren't for women we'd still be living in caves...

Why do men write suicide notes, blow up buildings, scream into the night, or work so hard to destroy their civilization? Because of "the babes." If it weren't for women -- and mens' stupidity regarding them -- we'd still be living in the Garden of Eden.

[Just to provide some editorial balance ...]

[the-ironically-named-proverbs2]

" I asked them if a non-beliver, a baby raised in some non-Christian country, for instance, would get to heaven, or spend eternity in hell. Well, the Bible is pretty clear on that -- hellsville for the little children -- tough luck on them. No matter how loving and charitable and giving and every other thing we consider quality in a human being -- it is to the hellsville dumpster for them, cuz they didn't believe. But "believers" can cheat, steal, fornicate, lie, doublecross others, etc -- and they have a direct pass to Heaven."

Funny, my Bible doesn't teach this at all. Actually the opposite- your "believers" will probably be the ones in the dumpster. Read about some "woe"s.

[Eagle Eye]

Religion is something invented by men to control other men

Says you. It might be a good idea to not address me on this anymore.

[Eagle Eye]

Women have capabilities that are different, not rivaling those of men. They can carry a baby in one arm much longer than can men. But you are right, the stamina for 'hunting and gathering' is generally greater in men. Men also identify with their occupations whereas women identify with their relationships.

Adam was a perfect man in every way. Jesus Christ is the Second Adam, and also perfect in every way. He is everything a man should be: strong, compassionate, loving, protective of those under him, attentive to his bride. I'm sure that Jesus was also physically attractive, although it is interesting that the Bible makes absolutely no mention of his appearance.

Jesus submitted to a higher authority, God Almighty, yet he willingly perfomred the duties of a servant when he washed the disciples' feet. His willingness to submit and serve made him stronger and more free than we can imagine.

Jesus Christ was not the namby-pamby waif tradition asks us to imitate. IMO, it is a trick of the adversary to get churches to ask men to check their balls at the door when they enter the building.

[Mortimer Snavely]

'... the same interpretations of the "scriptures" that the old time rulers used to keep people in subjugation to the crown. Is it any wonder that there is a "King James" version of the Bible??!!'

If you think that the King James Bible was an attempt by the Crown to subjugate the English speaking world, then I can only gather that you have very litlle knowledge indeed of the intellectual climate of the late 16th and early 17th centuries, and furthermore, are unable to distinguish between what could possible be true from what actually is true.

[jlogajan]

"the Bible is pretty clear on that -- hellsville for the little children"

Huh? Mark 10:13-16

"And they were bringing to him little children, that he should touch them: and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw it, he was moved with indignation, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me; forbid them not; for to such belongeth the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall in no wise enter therein. And he took them in his arms, and blessed them, laying his hands upon them."

Thanks for proving what I just said. Some kid in some far off land, either never hearing of Jesus or being brought up in a different religion is bound for hell -- no matter how decent of a human being he was in his childhood or adulthood.

You silly religionists, you make me laugh with your goofy beliefs.