Posted on 12/17/2002 11:13:33 PM PST by Joe 6-pack
"Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."
Circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution....
Article I.
Section 8. The Congress shall have power to...
...provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
...define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
... declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
... make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
... make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
Section 9.
...The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.
Article II
Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States..."
The facts of the matter are thus...
We have been attacked...in a manner more viscious than Pearl Harbor, the incursions of Pancho Villa, the sinking of the Lusiitania, or any other assault against our nation suffered during the 20th Century.
Efforts to continue attacks against our nation continue.
Liberal immigration policies have permitted the enemy to grow within.
Posse Comitatus is NOT an integral part of the Constitution; rather a proscription against the use of the Federal military in a law enforcement capacity against U.S. Civilians, UNDER MOST CIRCUMSTANCES. Exceptions have been written into the law, and, believe it or not, U.S. Military frequently supports U.S. Law enforcement in the following capacities...
1. Virtually not a day goes by where U.S. Army bomb detector K9s support the U.S. Secret Service, State deprtment, or DoD who request K9 sweeps in anticipation of dignitary visits.
2. U.S. Army / AF EOD personnel support local law enforcement who encounter unexploded U.S. or foreign, "souvenier," munitions or other IEDs which exceed the technical capacity of local EOD personnel.
When the enemy is within, are we to believe that the Department of Defense no longer has a role because the opponent is on U.S. soil? This is perhaps one the most absurd notions that political commentators of any stripe have ever proffered. Most curiously, the concept is most fiercely advocated by those who've tried to minimize the DoD's role abroad, suggesting that forward projection is not a matter of defense. We are a nation at war, and the warfighting component of the government should be given the lead.
Persons arguing aginst the DoD's role in the current conflict on Constitutional grounds need to realize that the DoD, formerly, the War Department, is Constitutionally organized and has a Constitutional role...on U.S. soil and beyond.
While I don't pretend to know more than anyone else on the subject, I can confidently assert that I know more than most. I served as an active duty military police officer in the U.S. Army for ten years. In my last two years, I served on a Defense Coordinating Element (DCE) responsible for organizing DoD support for FEMA ops in the event of natural or man-made disasters. I resigned effectively, in December 2000, prior to 9/11. Up to that time, to my awareness, FEMA officials, and military supervisors were painfully cognizant of the implications of Posse Comitatus and virtually all contingency planning was conducted with such considerations...even in cases where, in my opinion, justifications for exceptions were valid.
I've been deployed to quite a few of the world's finest sh!t-holes and have been inoculated against everything from Bubonic Plague, to Japanese Encephilitas to Yellow Fever. I've never developed any symptoms greater than an itchy arm. My immunization record is far longer and more replete than my resume will ever be, and I've yet to suffer ill-effects. Should a small-pox vaccine come available tomorrow, I'd accept it, not because it was mandated, but simply, because I really don't want to contract small-pox!
However, FL alleged, among other things, that vaccines are not responsible for preventing disease, which is a completely baseless and dangerous assertion to make. He then followed that up with painfully long cut-and-paste spamming that slowed threads down to a crawl. On top of that, he constantly whined to the moderators, sent nasty FReepmails (he sent one to me "go f&*k yourself"), and called everybody who disagreed with him names. And I haven't even gotten in to his crop circle posts.
It was only a matter of time.
That she was appropriately dressed for church, and is prettier when she doesn't smile.
There is not much to think about her, really.
So the former Former Lurker is now justa lurker, eh?
Because smallpox is a plague of Biblical ferocity that they've only seen in textbooks. Also, normal reactions to vaccination are more traumatic than they're used to seeing.
Here's a good thread...
Smallpox shots sicken some, startling researchers
As physical specimens, the Baylor University students were fit and healthy, the "crème de la crème," in the words of researcher Kathy Edwards. Yet when she inoculated them with smallpox vaccine, arms swelled, temperatures spiked and panic spread.
It was the same at clinics in Iowa, Tennessee and California. Of 200 young adults who received the vaccine in a recent government study, one-third missed at least one day of work or school, 75 had high fevers and several were put on antibiotics because physicians worried that their blisters signaled a serious bacterial infection.
Even for experts such as Edwards, the Vanderbilt University physician overseeing the study, the side effects were startling. "I can read all day about it, but seeing it is quite impressive," she said. "The reactions we saw were really quite remarkable."
President Bush may announce plans, perhaps as early as this week, to resume vaccinating Americans against smallpox as part of a massive push to protect the nation from a biological assault. As he weighs the decision, researchers are becoming reacquainted with the unpleasant often severe complications of the vaccine itself.
The experiences in a half-dozen clinical trials offer an early look at what military personnel, hospital workers and other emergency workers will likely encounter if Bush adopts the recommendations of his top health advisers to vaccinate up to 11 million people in the coming months. What is disconcerting, say the people participating in the clinical trials, is that when it comes to smallpox vaccination, what had once been considered ordinary is rather extraordinary by today's standards.
"I just wanted to go to bed for a day or two there," said Alison Francis, a New York University student who received the vaccine. Francis, 24, said she felt tired and achy after getting her shots. Her arm was heavy, warm to the touch and terribly itchy, she said.
Once among the deadliest scourges on Earth, smallpox was declared eradicated worldwide in 1981. But growing hostilities with Iraq and with Osama bin Laden and other terrorists have renewed fears that the virus could be used as a potent, stealthy weapon. Vaccination is surefire protection, but it is risky. For every 1 million people vaccinated, from 15 to 52 will suffer life-threatening consequences such as brain inflammation, and one or two will die, according to historical data. Pregnant women, babies, and people with eczema or weak immune systems should not receive the vaccine.
Federal researchers have been testing the 40-year-old vaccine for its safety and potency. None of the 1,500 volunteers have died or been seriously injured by the vaccine. But even the most mundane cases can be disturbing to doctors and patients unaccustomed to the live virus used in the vaccine and its side effects.
Unlike most modern vaccines, the smallpox vaccine is administered by 15 quick pricks that literally "establish an infection in your skin," said Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. "There is the immediate discomfort of getting poked in the arm and a range of annoying reactions."
Within three to four days, an itchy bump develops, followed by a larger blister filled with pus. In the second week, the blister dries into a scab that usually falls off in the third week. During the three weeks, many people experience flulike symptoms aches, fever, lethargy and terrible itchiness.
"You can't scratch it, it's all bandaged up; all I could do was smack it," said Meg Gifford, a University of Maryland junior who participated in one study. She suffered from a slight fever, an arm that was hot to the touch and swollen lymph nodes in her armpit.
"The reactions we are seeing are totally out of line with today's vaccine experience and absolutely in line with historical experience," said Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. "In the 30 years since we had routine vaccination, the public's tolerance level has gone way down."
Maryland researchers have begun a second trial revaccinating older adults to see how much immunity stays in the system. Early indications are that people who have been previously inoculated do not suffer as many severe side effects.
LINK
It had nothing to do with FL's opinions or how strongly he held them. It had everything to do with his manifest inability to conduct himself with even a bare minimum level of civility.
The only anti-bacteria vaccine which uses a live bacteria is the TB vaccine which is made from a related bacteria which infects cows. This vacccine is only recommended for children living with someone with TB who cannot treat their disease and is not effective for adolescents.
Of the vaccines which are for diseases caused by a virus, some use a killed virus while others use a live virus which has been weakened and changed by being grown inside a chicken embryo. Hepatitus A, Influenza, Rabies, and the IPV Polio vaccine all involve a killed virus.
The vaccines for Chickenpox-varicella, Yellow Fever, and MMR (Measles + Mumps + Rubella) all use weakened forms of live viruses. The oral polio vaccine used a live virus which was weakened by being grown inside of monkeys. It has been replaced by the IPV polio vaccine which involves a killed virus and is therefore considered safer.
Smallpox is the only vaccine which uses a live virus which is from a related disease which infects cows. It has higher risks than either a killed vaccine, or a vaccine which has a human virus which has been weakened by being grown in chicken embryos. The smallpox vaccine is only recommended if there is a known danger of getting smallpox. It is considered risky to give it to everyone in the absence of a known threat.
Bush Receives Smallpox Vaccination
Posted by grimalkin
On 12/21/2002 1:13 PM PST with 36 comments
Reuters ^ | Dec. 21, 2002 | Jim Wolf
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush was vaccinated against smallpox on Saturday in his capacity as commander-in-chief of U.S. armed forces and was showing no side effects, a White House spokeswoman said. Eight days ago, Bush announced plans to immunize half a million troops and up to 10 million civilian health care and emergency workers against the long-dormant disease, now deemed a terrorist threat. Doctors began giving the vaccinations on Monday, ahead of a possible U.S.-led war to strip Iraq of any banned chemical, biological or nuclear weapons programs. Bush took the shot in his left arm in the White House...
Bush Feels 'Fine' After Smallpox Shot
Posted by Dallas
On 12/22/2002 10:05 AM PST with 11 comments
AP ^
CAMP DAVID, Md. - President Bush (news - web sites) showed no ill effects Sunday from his smallpox vaccination, taking an early morning jog before going to church. On the first day of a long Christmas stay at Camp David, Bush was up at 6:15 a.m. and jogging two hours later. He ran three miles in 21 minutes, 15 seconds. Later, he went to church. Bush is feeling "absolutely, positively fine," said White House spokesman Adam Levine. Experts estimate that 15 out of every 1 million people vaccinated for the first time will face life-threatening complications, and one or two...
If you wish, I will Freepmail you a response to your post in typical FormerLurker fashion.
In short, if you can't play nice...you get sent home.
Former Lurker's position that no vaccine has ever done any good is probably wrong.Former Lurker didn't care about the issue, he cared about posing as the Sole Possessor of All Truth, regardless of the lies and tinfoil spam he needed for his narcissism.
Nevertheless, I have problems with the Bush administration's position for the following reasons:And an absolute menace to public health. Don't forget that.
1) It has not been proven to me that Iraq has smallpox.
2) It has not been proven to me that Iraq has the means to deliver and deploy smallpox effectively.So? Who are you?
3) Because of 1 and 2, the government's response seems based on speculation about what might happen rather than an actual threatSo? Why did President Bush take the smallpox vaccination booster?
Why did the CDC stockpile 300,000,000 doses of the vaccine?
Why are Europe and the G-7 and Canada and Mexico and Israel and Jordan suddenly interested in immunizing their populations from smallpox?
. 4) It is not clear to me that cowpox is sufficiently harmless that it's widespread distribution poses no threat.Gotcha, "not been proven to me" = "government's response seems based on speculation about what might happen rather than an actual threat."
5) It has not been sufficiently explained how cowpox differs from smallpox. I mean this biologically and not just in terms of symptoms.Well, since cowpox (or a close relative) was used for almost 200 years with overwhelming benefits to the human race, I don't know what it will take to convince you.
No one's claiming anything is without risk, what we're talking about is lowering risks. Cease the false dilemmas and straw men already.
6) The vaccine is a live virus and not a killed virus.Yes it has. Do your homework. One virus is Vaccinia, the other is Variola.
7) The method of preparing the live virus is not the safest method which is cell culture adaptation which as noted above uses a human virus which has been weakened by being grown in a chicken embryo. Instead it is an unweakened live virus from a related cow disease.Big deal. As you noted, it's a live virus that's not the same as the one for which we're being immunized.
Since smallpox is more lethal and contagious than most other viruses, it poses a unique risk, and warrants unique solutions if that's all we have.
8) If smallpox has been eradicated from the human population then mandatory widespread vaccination could have the effect of reintroducing it in the form of a similar disease.So? The vast, vast majority of those vaccinated come out of it healthy, unscathed, and immunized against smallpox.
Hold your breath, if you like, for a risk-free universe.
9) The ratio of public health risks to public health benefits in vaccinating a population in which a disease does not exist is different from the ratio of risks to benefits in vaccination of a population where the disease is already prevalent.No, scientifically impossible. There has never been a case where one disease has become an already existing disease. This is hysteria. Why not fear that vaccine scars will provide portals for an invasion from another dimension?
Also, we aren't talking about "mandatory," that's a red herring.
10) The patriot act protects the pharmaceutical industry from being sued if the vaccine causes harm.The vaccine will be voluntary. Wring your hands if you like, while the rest of us provide you with herd immunity.
Good. The voluntary vaccine will carry an implicit consent waiver. Cutting through the lawyers and the red tape is a good thing..
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.