Smallpox Comitatus

self ^ | 12/18/02 | Self

[Joe 6-pack]

Title 18 USC., Part I, Chap. 67 Sec. 1385. - Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus

"Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."

Circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution....

Article I.

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to...

...provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

...define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

... declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

... make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

... make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

Section 9.

...The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

Article II

Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States..."

So much has been made in recent days about how badly the Constitution will be scarred by the use of U.S. Military on U.S. soil in the event of terrorist acts following up to the September 11, 2001 attacks. Many of these issues are raised by so-called libertarians who profess to be Constitutional purists, who lose sight of the fact that at the time of the drafting of our Constitution, and for some period thereafter, the VAST MAJORITY of U.S. military activity took place on U.S. soil. Moreover, many of these same persons heretofore railed against the projection of U.S. military force abroad, cautioning against, "foreign entanglements."

The facts of the matter are thus...

We have been attacked...in a manner more viscious than Pearl Harbor, the incursions of Pancho Villa, the sinking of the Lusiitania, or any other assault against our nation suffered during the 20th Century.

Efforts to continue attacks against our nation continue.

Liberal immigration policies have permitted the enemy to grow within.

Posse Comitatus is NOT an integral part of the Constitution; rather a proscription against the use of the Federal military in a law enforcement capacity against U.S. Civilians, UNDER MOST CIRCUMSTANCES. Exceptions have been written into the law, and, believe it or not, U.S. Military frequently supports U.S. Law enforcement in the following capacities...

1. Virtually not a day goes by where U.S. Army bomb detector K9s support the U.S. Secret Service, State deprtment, or DoD who request K9 sweeps in anticipation of dignitary visits.

2. U.S. Army / AF EOD personnel support local law enforcement who encounter unexploded U.S. or foreign, "souvenier," munitions or other IEDs which exceed the technical capacity of local EOD personnel.

When the enemy is within, are we to believe that the Department of Defense no longer has a role because the opponent is on U.S. soil? This is perhaps one the most absurd notions that political commentators of any stripe have ever proffered. Most curiously, the concept is most fiercely advocated by those who've tried to minimize the DoD's role abroad, suggesting that forward projection is not a matter of defense. We are a nation at war, and the warfighting component of the government should be given the lead.

Persons arguing aginst the DoD's role in the current conflict on Constitutional grounds need to realize that the DoD, formerly, the War Department, is Constitutionally organized and has a Constitutional role...on U.S. soil and beyond.

While I don't pretend to know more than anyone else on the subject, I can confidently assert that I know more than most. I served as an active duty military police officer in the U.S. Army for ten years. In my last two years, I served on a Defense Coordinating Element (DCE) responsible for organizing DoD support for FEMA ops in the event of natural or man-made disasters. I resigned effectively, in December 2000, prior to 9/11. Up to that time, to my awareness, FEMA officials, and military supervisors were painfully cognizant of the implications of Posse Comitatus and virtually all contingency planning was conducted with such considerations...even in cases where, in my opinion, justifications for exceptions were valid.

I've been deployed to quite a few of the world's finest sh!t-holes and have been inoculated against everything from Bubonic Plague, to Japanese Encephilitas to Yellow Fever. I've never developed any symptoms greater than an itchy arm. My immunization record is far longer and more replete than my resume will ever be, and I've yet to suffer ill-effects. Should a small-pox vaccine come available tomorrow, I'd accept it, not because it was mandated, but simply, because I really don't want to contract small-pox!

[wimpycat]

You can only keep an open mind and look at both sides for so long before common sense and reason force you to choose one over the other. I looked at FL's stuff and I rejected it. No need to look at both sides anymore. HE is the one who had a closed mind.

[DBtoo]

FWIW, please do read some of the information concerning smallpox and the vaccine. It's really not totally safe, and even though it's 2002 there are still a lot of scientific misconceptions out there, and there is still so much that we don't know yet. Now I need to settle down because I am feeling very unhappy over the unfair banning of FL. You guys may someday find out that FR has become too boring because most of those who have "personality" have been banned.

[Sabertooth]

People around here are turning into real spoil-sports.

This isn't "sport." Unless you consider deep-sixing nutballs to be sport, which I guess is true.

What is sporting about posting thoroughly debunked nonsense that someone might read and use to justify failing to immunize a child? Or that might lead to increased vulnerability in the event of a bio-attack? That's the twisted little game that Former Lurker was playing. His posts were replete with fringe info from decades back, sometimes as old as 130 years. Check the links at #18 on this thread if you're interested in learning the truth about immunization and the quackery that FormerLurker was evangelizing.

[DBtoo]

I must have missed that one where you said you consumed 6 adult beverages. How funny! That's probably what I need to do at this point!

[hellinahandcart]

I highly recommend it.

[woofie]

I somehow manage to get along with most people excepting my ex wife and the neighbor down the street that wants to fight me...It is tougher on a forum like this where its easy to get nasty because we are all anonymous.Listen to FL's critics, they have stated the reason he is out of here quite eloquently.

[dighton]

Had I been through your ordeal, I'd have gulped down the entire liquor cabinet.

[hellinahandcart]

I'm still working on the big metaphysical questions--why me? Why today? Why was I there? Why was I given that seat, with that view, today and no other day?

Was I supposed to moon Clinton from behind the choir, or something? Did I fail in my duty? I just don't know anymore...

[DBtoo]

FL was posting facts and wasn't the first to start calling names. I just think it's plain mean. It's like a bunch of kids ganging up on another kid and saying, "You can't play with us anymore." I just don't like when people get banned. I always though FL was interesting and polite, and stood up for him/herself.

Even the gov. says the vaccine is not totally safe. I guess we'll all find out the truth if it does come down to vaccinating all Americans. It never hurts though to put out there all sides of the story. I don't think all the smallpox facts are really known by anyone, therefore the controversy.

[Steel Wolf]

More proof that a little knowledge can be a dangereous thing. While I commend those who want to stay informed about the effects of various medical procedures, I think that some people will sieze upon a possible negative outcome and focus on that to the exclusion of all others. This may be out of fear, or mistrust, or ignorance due to bad information.

In my line of work, I've taken the Anthrax shots, and will likely get the Smallpox set in the not to distant future. What apprehension I have about the possible side effects is minimal compared to my apprehension of facing down real biological weapons without any protection save a 'lowest bidder special' pro-mask and suit. It's not a perfect system, I'll admit, but life is offering two choices. Either get the vaccine(s), run the risk, and be prepared, or die with the herd.

FormerLurker, on the other hand, will be armed with a bar of soap and some shampoo. (In the event of biological attack, lather, rinse, repeat.) I hope a real bio attack never happens, but if it does, and with a preventable disease, history will be merciless with those that could have prevented it.

[DBtoo]

I didn't see all of the FL posts, although I had read some concerning the smallpox. I never saw anything out of line or nasty.

[DBtoo]

What I don't understand though is I've seen some really nasty, hateful posters who are horribly intolerant and call people all kinds of names, yet they don't get banned. A couple of them are down-right nuts in my opinion. Why those people don't get banned, I'll never figure out.

[judicial meanz]

If I remember right, it was either the 101 or the 82. The National Guard was also there as well. I dont remember what they did.

[judicial meanz]

Absolutely it would. I dream of the day this generation of politicians croaks and we can maybe get some fresh blood who actually gives a S*** about the country.

Of course, I dream a lot...LOL

[wimpycat]

Maybe these nasty posters you refer to don't hit the abuse button and ping the Admin Mods when people respond to them in kind. JR has referred to it as having "unclean hands" and he doesn't put up with it for too long.

You seem to think as if it's all one-sided, but it's not.

[DBtoo]

But why is it some people like FL get banned, but others who are really vicious towards other posters, even threatening them, are tolerated? There are a couple of people like that on FR. I've stayed away from the threads those people like to visit as they are too unpleasant. I've always wondered why they don't get banned. They call people terrible names for not agreeing with them, and as I said they threaten too.

[Sabertooth]

Even the gov. says the vaccine is not totally safe.

Everyone says the vaccine is not totally safe. Complications can occur, but the risks are minimal when compared to the benefits.

But that's not what Former Lurker was saying. He was lying about the efficacy of vaccines in eradicating and preventing many infectious and deadly diseases. He said the vaccines caused the disease, or made one more likely to succumb to an epidemic. Everything he posted was either fraudulent or had been thoroughly debunked.

Smallpox was one of the great scourges of human History. The men and women who fought it with vaccines are heroes. Former Lurker insulted them with his lies, and desired to put others at risk with his narcissitic tinfoil.

I gave you a great resource at #18, you should check it out. Former Lurker was bad news.

[DBtoo]

I could drag out the books and quote you numbers. What FL posted could be found in lots of places. I guess when God decides our time is up, then we'll go.

[DBtoo]

You've got a good point.

[PeaceBeWithYou]

Actually, his annoying habit of cuting and pasting entire pages from his anti-whatever websites will easily give him away. If you take away those, he really doesn't have much to say.

Take that away, and all that is left are his errors, insults, and hypocracy--laid out for all to see.