Religions change over time but is Islam an inherently violent religion?

Daily Journal ^ | December 10, 2002 | Bob Thomas

[Destro]

Religions change over time

Bob Thomas, Daily Journal

December 10, 2002

WASHINGTON -- Is Islam an inherently violent religion? A debate on this subject has received much attention in the United States. The question is absurd. It is like asking whether Christianity is a religion of peace. Well, there is Francis of Assisi. And there is the Thirty Years' War. Which do you choose? Religions are interpreted by the people of their time and thus change over time. Scripture can be invoked to support almost any position. Islam has its periods of violence and its periods of tolerance. The Ottomans gave refuge to the Jews expelled from Catholic Spain in 1492. Today the Arab world is the purveyor of the most vicious anti-Semitic propaganda since Nazi Germany. (Egyptian state television is currently showing a 41-part television series based on the notorious czarist forgery, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.)

Which stands for the real Islam? The question is not just unanswerable, it is irrelevant. The real issue is not the essence of an abstraction--who can say what is the real Christianity or the real Judaism?--but the actions of actual Muslims in the world today. And there is no denying the fact, stated most boldly by Samuel Huntington, author of "The Clash of Civilizations?" that "Islam has bloody borders."

From Nigeria to Sudan to Pakistan to Indonesia to the Philippines, some of the worst, most hate-driven violence in the world today is perpetrated by Muslims and in the name of Islam.

Take the most recent example, the Miss World riots in northern Nigeria. Muslim mobs respond to an offensive newspaper article by burning down the newspaper's offices, massacring innocent Christians and issuing a fatwa on the life of the author of the article.

In Sudan, the Arab government in Khartoum has for decades been conducting a genocidal campaign against the Christian and animist blacks in the south -- a campaign that includes mass starvation, the bombing of hospitals and slavery.

In Pakistan, Muslim extremists have attacked Christian churches, killing every parishioner they could. Just last month in Lebanon, an evangelical Christian nurse, who had devoted her life to caring for the sick, was shot three times through the head, presumably, for "proselytizing."

The Bali disco bombers have confessed to a series of previous church bombings. In the Philippines, the Abu Sayyaf specialize in kidnappings and beheadings of hostages in their terrorist campaign against the predominantly Catholic central government.

On the northern tier of the Islamic world, even more blood flows -- in Pakistani-Kashmiri terrorism against Hindu India, Chechen terrorism in Russian-Orthodox Moscow and Palestinian terrorism against the Jews. (The Albanian Muslim campaign against Orthodox Macedonia is now on hold.) And then of course there was Sept. 11 -- Islamic terrorism reaching far beyond its borders to strike at the heart of the satanic "Crusaders."

This says nothing about inherent violence; the vast majority of Muslims are obviously peaceful people living within the rules of civilized behavior. But the actual violence, bloodletting against nearly every non-Muslim civilization from Hindu to African animist, demands attention. Underlying most of the individual grievances is a sense that Islam has lost its rightful place of dominance, the place it enjoyed half a millennium ago. Al Qaeda deputy Ayman Zawahiri's allusions to the loss of Andalusia (medieval Spain) reinforce the bin Laden promise of revenge and redemption.

This feeling of a civilization in decline -- and adopting terror and intimidation as the road to restoration -- is echoed in a recent U.N. report that spoke frankly of the abject Arab failure to modernize. It is one thing for the Arabs to have fallen behind the West. But to fall behind South Korea -- also colonized, once poor and lacking any of the Islamic world's fantastic oil wealth--is sheer humiliation.

Abdurrahman Wahid, former president of Indonesia and leader of perhaps the largest Islamic society in the world, traces Islamic radicalism not just to a failure of self-respect and self-identity -- deep feelings of inadequacy and loss -- but also to an enormous failure of moderate Muslim leadership. The murderers speak in the name of Islam, and the peaceful majority cannot find the courage to challenge them.

"The Islamic world today is being held prisoner," writes Salman Rushdie, "not by Western but by Islamic captors, who are fighting to keep closed a world that a badly outnumbered few are trying to open." And "the majority remains silent." Until they speak, the borders of Islam will remain bloody.

[Destro]

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[Cicero]

Well, maybe some religions change over time. But two of the tenets of Islam are: a) Muhammed was the last prophet, and there will be no more; b) The Quran must be strictly observed, and there is no such thing as interpreting or even translating it.

As far as violence is concerned, Islam has been violent ever since it began, with intervals of quiet only when they are regrouping for more violence.

[ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton]

The reports of acts of benevolent Muslims throughout history have been greatly exaggerated...

[Valin]

Religions change over time but is Islam an inherently violent religion?


The problem is Islam hasn't changed. And therein lies the problem many of us have with it. It is still mired in the 10th century way of thinking.

[vtel57]

The problem here is not about individual religions being violent or peaceful. The problem is about HATE. Those who control religion and some who participate in religion are infused with a burning hatred for others.

Religion has killed more men than all the diseases and disasters throughout the history of mankind. It still comes down to the old "us and them" situation. Mankind has displayed suspicious and belligerent behavior toward anyone not classified as "us" ever since he came down from the trees and moved into the caves.

The solution to our current day problems is for men to realize that we are all the same animal. We seek the same things out of life... sustenance, security, safety, pleasure, happiness, etc. Religions of this world seperate us. They do NOT bring us together.

It's so non-sensical to me at times...

"My god has a different name than yours, so I hate you."

"My prophet said this and that... your savior said such and such, so I hate you."

It's insanity, my friends. We've spent so many years trying to eliminate racial prejudices and hatreds, yet we still tolerate religious prejudices and hatreds. Why is that? Religion... Religion foists upon us this plan of action, this insane behavior, this shameful basis that many use to kill, maim, and destroy their innocent fellow creatures.

How can anyone actually be so insane as to believe that strapping 40 lbs of high explosive to his body and blowing up a busload of innocent children is the right thing to do in the eyes of his god? How can anyone believe that others who don't believe the same dogma and doctrine are in some way inferior? How can anyone say that their god has claimed that they... of the billions who've live and died on this earth... are the "chosen" ones. It's INSANITY.

WAKE THE HELL UP!

Regards,

V.T. Eric Layton
***Tempus Fugits***
vtel57@softhome.net

[inspector]

I am just curious, what religion did Stalin adhere to or Hitler or Pol Pot. Just wondering, that's all...

[happygrl]

Deep thoughts (grin).

[SouthParkRepublican]

"Religion... Religion foists upon us this plan of action, this insane behavior, this shameful basis that many use to kill, maim, and destroy their innocent fellow creatures."

Horse Hockey. Men bend religion to their will and distort it to suit their interests. This has always been the problem. Think of religion as you would a baseball bat; you can use it to play a game or to bash someone's skull in.

[vtel57]

Stalin was a Communist... that was religion for him. Religion of the State.

Hitler was a Catholic.

Pol Pot? Who knows?

I see the point you're trying to make. You're implying that these megalomaniacal individuals killed millions, yet there seemed to be no religion involved in their hatred. It still comes down to an "us and them" situation. Religion, in my opinion, broadens the gulf between peoples of this world, hence, deepens the rift between the "us" and the "them". This is not conducive to a peaceful world. Study your history and you will see the shameful numbers of innocents purged and destroyed by religions of this world. I doubt any god would be amused.

Regards,

V.T. Eric Layton
***Tempus Fugits***
vtel57@softhome.net

[vtel57]

>Men bend religion to their will and distort it to suit their interests.

Heh-heh... Religion is MANMADE! Of course, men distort it and bend it to their own wills.

Later...

V.T. Eric Layton
***Tempus Fugits***
vtel57@softhome.net

[Aric2000]

Amen Brother!!

[Destro]

Religion has killed more men than all the diseases and disasters throughout the history of mankind.

That is a falsehood.

[eleni121]

Religions do not change. People may change the way they perceive or understand their own devotion to a religion but the principles and laws of any particular religion cannot change.

If we take islam to be a religion -which it is not - then it is a "religion" prone and dedicated (by its own founder) to violence and a utopianist eschatological view of history (similar to Marxism). The fact that so many muslims want to live peacefully does not change the fact that the ideology itself clearly calls for domination and annihilation of non muslims. Therefore muslims who demonstrate peaceful behavior and claim their wish for peace are either betraying the tenets of islam or are deliberately misleading others by their claims of peaceful coexistence.

Obviously, Bin Laden, his backers, and others who are anti capitalist and anti West are exploiting the muslim's world's frustration and disgust with what they perceive is the West's (secular) decadence and ability to manipulate the world's culture and economy.

[vtel57]

Warfare, which can be directly linked to religious beliefs in many instances, has ended the lives of billions throughout mankind's reign on this earth. Religious purges, religious wars, religious inquisitions, jihads, etc. have all contributed to this list of the dead.

Kindly prove to me and others here that my statement is a falsehood. What is the basis of your argument against my statement?

Regards,

V.T. Eric Layton
***Tempus Fugits***
vtel57@softhome.net

[eleni121]

Islam has its periods of violence and its periods of tolerance. The Ottomans gave refuge to the Jews expelled from Catholic Spain in 1492.

This is such rubbish and is taken straight from left wing revisionist history permeating universities these days. The Ottomans - Muslim Turks - while allegedly "assisting" Jews in relocating to the Balkans and Middle east - were enslaving and destroying the Christian world of the the same area! Remember: Asia Minor (today's turkey) was once completely Christian. Today there are less than a couple thousand Christians left.

[Alouette]

prove to me and others here that my statement is a falsehood.

The burden of proof is on you to show that your statement is correct, not for others to disprove it.

[Oberon]

Is Islam an inherently violent religion?

Well, rather than look at its history, let's look at its foundational principles. What does it teach?

The Koran explicitly authorizes proselityzing at swordpoint, with death for those who refuse. It also specifies the spreading of Islam by military conquest. These commands appear without subsequent mitigating language.

On this basis it becomes clear that there is no equivalency between Christianity and Islam. No reading of Christian texts can amount to a Divine mandate for violence in the service of the Gospel.

Hmmm... it seems to be an easy call to make...

[vtel57]

>... but the principles and laws of any particular religion cannot change.

I must STRONGLY disagree with this statement. Study religions and their histories. The Christian religion has gone through numerous changes in dogma and doctrine throughout its 2000 year history... look at all the current day divisions and sects that claim to be Christian. The Jewish religion has changed its stance on many tenets and beliefs over it's 4000 year history. Islam has been molded and changed over its history by those in control of the countries that profess this religion. It's even broken into two sects Sunni and Shi' ite. Religion is a constantly changing thing. Each time a man decides that his church doesn't have it right he runs out and starts another offshoot... Luther, ever heard of him? Great example.

Regards,

V.T. Eric Layton
***Tempus Fugits***
vtel57@softhome.net

[Destro]

I can do so with one observation. The Black Death has killed more people than any number of religious wars have. WW1 was fought for political reasons and WW2 was a racial/political war and not one based on religion. We have had plenty of secular wars too you know.