Dec 12th Report from UN Tribunal - Milosevic vs. Humna Rights Watch

Jeri Laber, the woman of the human rights, was this obnoxious combination of ignorance and arrogance which could be noticed in all these NGO warriors. One of our columnists coined a suitable name for them: anti-war profiteers (as opposed to simple, more honest, merely money-oriented war profiteers). This lot is downright dirty-handed and dirty-minded.

By penning their worthless 'reports', full of cheap politicking, ridiculous mistakes and vague generalizations, pretending they're defending the human rights of some abused people (without even deigning to put the facts right), they play into the hands of the governments who ordered these reports and at the same time they are not at all squeamish to accept the money. Our own type of such anti-war profiteers has one more layer to it: they are commissioned to quench even the last trace of any national feeling and pride within the tortured Serbian people. The three wicked witches of Belgrade are Biljana Kovacevic-Vuco (Yugoslav Committee of Human Rights Lawyers), Natasa Kandic (Humanitarian Law Centre) and Sonja Biserko (Serbian Helsinki Committee for Human Rights). They drafted (if not completely authored) the large chunks of the ICTY indictments, with a little help from Mesic.

They created the refrigerator truck news and dully disseminated/manipulated each anti-Serb slander there is. The last one named, Biserko, is among those 14 witnesses that the Prosecution had renounced in order to extend Babic. Good riddance! I'm physically unable to listen to the dribble of either one of them for more than 10 minutes at the time.

If you want to know more, to 'follow the money trail' and to see how the agenda, the ideology and the sources of funding are the same for the Human Rights Watch, the Institute for War & Peace Reporting, the International Crisis Group… and to follow the trail of the 'Human Rights Crowd' in the Balkans, read 3 highly informative articles by Gilles d'Aymery (http://www.swans.com/library/art7/ga109.html …/ga110.html …/ga111.html).

Well, if we were rid of Biserko by a lucky escape, we couldn't evade her more prominent Helsinki-Committee sister, Jeri Laber.

This one looks a bit more sophisticated than her Balkans counterparts, but her arrogance is that much greater. It was her downfall: she revealed her utter ignorance about the region and events in question and she didn't care one bit, concluding that she is 'here just to bring these 2 reports' (?!).

And these reports, one re human rights abuse in Kosovo and the other in Croatia, are so vague and generalized ('a certain small village', 'many people are believed to be executed'), full of material mistakes and plain stupidities ('KLA didn't exist then and I have been impressed how peaceful the Army of the Albanians was'), and above all highly politicised in each of its premises and conclusions ('the situation equal to apartheid and racism', 'HW appeals for the sanctions to be introduced against the Serbian Government').

In addition to anonymous informants, alleged victims of abuse, the bulk of material for the reports has been provided by talking to our 3 humanitarian Amazons and Mesic ('intellectuals, newspapermen, members of the Presidency')! The total number of the interviews for each report is about 30, Amazons & Mesic included. Truly a large, representative sample.

Of course, the Greater Serbia slander was amply used; when Nice asked how that came about, Laber answered 'this was in general use, in the Western press in any case'(?!). Even judge Robinson wanted to know whence the claim of JNA acting without authorization came. Laber said: "I cannot say what is this information based upon; perhaps they [HW staff] spoke with some members of the Presidency and draw such a conclusion."

After concocting such a precise, unbiased report, Jeri & staff would try to hand-deliver it to the culprits (in this case, Milosevic and General Adzic); when refused reception by them and instead received by lower-level officials, and later on answered in writing by the Chief of Cabinet, they regarded this as the sign that 'Serbia assumes full responsibility for all crimes in its territory'. This, together with both 'reports', was trumpeted all over media and sent to 'relevant Governments'.

To demonstrate objectivity, Laber presented supposedly similar report, handed over to Tudjman (this time in person), to which he replied he will 'investigate it'. Good show! But, one can take just one look at this other report prepared for Tudjman to see the sly doubletalk: this is the 'report on the human rights abuse by the Serbian local authorities and by Croatian individuals'. The Croatian Police and the National Guard Units are 'individuals', while JNA and Serbian Government are accused in toto .

Of course, other than this initial show no further development happened, no sanctions against CRO were asked/imposed. Nevertheless, Nice was thrilled, asking a rhetorical question: "Was this the sign of your trying to be unbiased?", and he quoted few sentences stating 'sufferings of the Serbs in the WW2', when 'thousands were killed'.

Jumping to and fro between the 2 reports, Nice made Laber talk profusely about the situation in Kosovo back in 1981, irritating May so much (history!!!) that he snapped even at Nice: "Such a detailed revisiting of the Kosovo history is not helping us at all in this moment." Nice sheepishly said: "We have always claimed that this all mutually fits together; this is a woman who visited all these regions before the wars."

So, the woman who makes all this to fit together, summed up all this by repeating that 'yes, they've denied all our accusations, but that letter signifies also their acceptance of responsibility'. Obviously, it is mortally dangerous to exchange any mail with these rabid NGOs, because that way you automatically recognize their importance.

After such a disgusting performance, Milosevic jumped with both feet on Laber; May tried his best to rescue her by interrupting 'We shall decide the admissibility of hearsay evidence", "This is irrelevant", "This is for us to decide".

After May prevented questioning the anonymity of informants, possibility to contact them and offer them protection of the ICTY to testify, the principle of direct procedure in any other court that the HW should defend and the separation of the right for self-determination from the human rights corpus, Milosevic then switched to the 'reports' and shredded them to pieces. Opening one of them at random, he quoted one sentence, describing one alleged human rights abuse. Then he asked: "Which village was that and which event?" Laber didn't know.

Milosevic quoted next sentence, describing alleged perpetrators, wearing 'yellow camouflage uniforms', and asked Laber whether she knew that there were no such uniforms in any ex-YU region, that these are the uniforms used in desert regions. Laber 'couldn't say what was the matter there'. Milosevic expressed his astonishment at such imprecise text, in collision with the 'highest professional standards' that her organization boasts of. Laber stated she did 'believe in the competence of people who made the report; didn't come here to defend the report paragraph by paragraph, but to bring the report.'

Milosevic proceeded by quoting from the statement, describing Laber's meeting in Belgrade (after she had been denied meeting with Milosevic and General Adzic) with 3 lower-level Army officers and '2 Foreign Affairs Ministry officials, Dr Micunovic and a certain Kostunica'.

He innocently asked her whether she was aware that Micunovic, current Speaker of the Federal Assembly, and Kostunica, current President of FRY, 'people who illegally delivered me here after they seized the power', were at that time two MPs from an opposition party, and not members of any Government. Laber showed contempt to these facts (why should she worry about some Balkan politicians, who was in what body and when, or whether her reports are precise or not?), saying it only matters what those people told her. Milosevic pointed out that this proves she was unable to understand such simple facts, which further indicates the other things were misunderstood as well; he then explained to this pigheaded lady that what they told her about Kosovo was exactly the same position she heard earlier from 3 Army representatives, as reported; was it not enough reason for her to believe it, when bitter political opponents stated the same?

Milosevic pressed on: "Was it not a logical mistake of yours, when you heard identical answer from those people as the answer you've got from the Army, to automatically lump them up in the Government?" For the first time, Laber let few moments to pass in silence. May panicked and jumped in: "No, no, this has nothing to do with this witness. You're now making your case here, and through this witness." Tapuskovic used the opportunity to further embarrass May, lingering at the unpleasant fact and getting back at him for all that snapping and barking; he stood up and supposedly 'clarified': "Your Honour, it has been a mistake, she thought that they were members of the Government, that they belong to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs."

May was sarcastic: "Yes, we know that. We shall not lose any more time." But Milosevic wouldn't let go: "Don't you think this is a rather cardinal mistake, which destroys a picture of your organization being exact and precise?" May prevented the answer: "Mrs Laber, if you don't want to answer, and it seems to me this is totally senseless…" She didn't answer, of course.

All the rest was further humiliation of the humanitarian madam, obviously very tough and cynical from handling Soros-type funding in exchange for opinion shaping. She answered in the shortest possible way, with staccato annunciation and acid remarks. Milosevic pointed out her falsely-objective and hypocritical remarks about the sufferings of the Serbs in the WW2 in CRO, when 'thousands were killed'; he sharply told her there were hundreds of thousands , and not thousands killed.

Laber said they 'want to avoid sensationalism and always use lower figures'. Talking about Holocaust denier!

Milosevic wanted to know was it not logical for the Serbs in CRO to remember those things after their constitutional status has been revoked. Laber was insolent: "I have not studied the Constitution; I believe your word at face value."

Milosevic: "You and your colleagues were supposed to read it, dealing with it in your reports. Your organization and yourself didn't know what was going on there."

Milosevic: "This was not the past, this was the present condition and the change happening at that moment."

To get an idea of the expert staff going to fact-finding missions, in addition to Laber herself, a Columbia-graduated expert in sovietology (?!) (when her staff was still petit, she was engaged personally; now they're 200 and she just jets around the world, being wined and dined, and occasionally testifies) there were two other gentlemen and a girl called Ivana Nizic, personally recruited by Laber right after she finished Columbia.

Laber gave her a training in research techniques (one week? three weeks?) and off she goes! This is her 'competent, experienced staff, trained not to ask suggestive questions, familiar with the countries in question'. Naturally, Miss Nizic acquired necessary experience along the way and became the investigator - guess where? Yes, ICTY!

Pure political premises and conclusions of the 'reports' were too much for Tapuskovic to bear, so he stood up at the very beginning, trying to point out that on a similar occasion, when one of the Court's investigators testified about Kosovo, all his conclusions were left out from his report and only 'facts' remained. But, it was useless, May admitted everything, mistakes, stupidities, slander, Western media as a source.

The 'reports' stated "Serb occupation of the parts of Croatian territory". When Milosevic quoted the US General Charles Boyd as saying that 'contrary to the popular media position, the Serbs lived there for centuries",

Laber just brought her reports, she was a courier and you don't argue the contents of the mail with a courier.

The position is this - either you concede that Hitler did not need to issue direct orders for the massacres perpetrated by his troops, thus also conceding that Milosevic need not have issued direct orders to be culpable for the massacres perpetrated by his troops, or you hold to the position that direct orders are needed for culpability, whereupon I will apply your position back to Babi Yar, etc.

Hitler DID directly order his troops to commit atrocities, so I don't need to concede anything. I also haven't contradicted this ANYWHERE. If you disagree, then indicate the post number and post the statement here I said that Hitler did not order atrocities.

So the questions remain, how does what happened over 60 years ago prove the Guarantor ordered Srebrenica, and why did it escape the Hague's investigators?

No, I'm talking about "conquered" territories where some jackass decides he owns someone else's house because it's next to his farm, which is the nuts and bolts basis of Serb nationalist claims to non-Serb Bosnian land, houses, cars, bank accounts, daughters, and everything else their covetous hearts desired when they overran non-Serb residents of their new, temporary statelet.

See all that non-red inside the Republika Srpska? That's right - refugees or dead, courtesy of Milosevic/Karadzic et al. You can do the same exercise when you come across a Muslim or Croat map to complement your Serb map - you'll find the shading for their distribution doesn't confine itself to any current borders either.

And please review Karadzic's views on Dayton, and how Milosevic cut him out of the picture and dealt directly with Mladic - it's embarassing dealing with individuals who don't even know the basics as far as the side they are hoping to represent.

Hitler DID directly order his troops to commit atrocities, so I don't need to concede anything.

You do not understand what a direct order is - it amounts to "You, go to this place, do this thing".

Show me where Hitler directly ordered Babi Yar - whether through actually mentioning Babi Yar, or through explicitly ordering the deaths of Russian Jews.

It's not like there's a whole internet denial industry built around the absence of what you are claiming exists, Balto_boy. You're simply playing the part for Milosevic of those who would claim that Hitler was misunderstood and actually meant for the Jews to be shipped off to Madagascar.

Now provide a direct order from Hitler or concede the point - it's not quite as difficult a proposition to understand as you are making it out to be.

Please note, this represents the Ethnic Structure of the population in Bosnia-Herzegovina and Croatia according to the census in 1981 and thus it reflects also the decimation of the serbian population caused by genocide, as these regions were part of NDH(Independent State od Croatia) from 1941 to 1945. The serbs would have made a far greater majority in those areas, if it was not for the genocide in WWII and the great losses in WWI and not to forget the anti-serb drawing of republic-borders imposed by the communist-croatian dicator Tito.

The issue of self-determination of serbs in these areas wouldn't have caused any opposition from the 'West' after the second World War, but it did cause strong oppostion in the 1990's. Especially from Germany. How come? Do you think the serbs should have asked the Germans in 1945 after WWII, if it's ok for Germany that the majority serbian areas exercise their right to self-determination? Especially considering Germany's role in the balkans during the war, establishment of fascist Greater Croatia, fascist Greater Albania, campaign of genocide against serbs in these areas. People don't forget their history in the balkans.

As Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina claimed the right to self-determination to seperate from Yugoslvia, the serbs of Krajina and Republika Srpska in response claimed their right to self-determination and secession from the newly created statelettes(they were also absolutely entitled not to leave the Yugoslav federation by the way-but this was also denied to them). That right to self-determination was denied to the serbs from the begining on in 1991/92, no negotiations were offered, it was just prohibited by Tudman, Izetbegovic, Genscher... and so the doors for an armed conflict were openend. Not to mention, that the secession of Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina were unconstitutional in the first place and against the declared will of the serbian population, a constituent people, within those republics.

Great - none of your maps go towards rationalizing what happened to non-Serbs in the area that fell under the thrall of Milosevic's forces.

Don't get me wrong. I never supported any campaign of ethnic cleansing, be it serbs, croats, muslims or any other ethnic group in the former Yugoslavia. Wouldn't have happened, if I was the commander in chief. ;)

The only thing I can say is, that it was a bloody and terrible civil war and these areas were battle zones and all parties were heavily involved in securing their territories during the war. Again, this is not an excuse. What I am trying to discuss is, why the war took place in the first place. That it was very violent and ugly, as civil wars bent to be in general, is well known.

Calling the few million serbs west of the Drina 'Milosevic's forces' is a very incompetent phrase, even for you.

Ok.

Milosevic ultimately controlled Serbs in Knin and Pale through supplies delivered from Serbia - he was the leader of the Serb nation, not just the Serb Republic.

Would you have followed a more enlightened course, not tied to divisive ethnic policies, then I wish it would have been you that succeeded Stambolic - but you would have been struggling against economic forces that many East European leaders have found impossible to face while maintaining their electability, and politics of division are, unfortunately, so much easier to conduct than politics of equality, especially when recent history provides such a fertile field in which to sow discord.

Milosevic ultimately controlled Serbs in Knin and Pale through supplies delivered from Serbia - he was the leader of the Serb nation, not just the Serb Republic.

I disagree here. He was, in the begining maybe, but not later on. You remember that he even imposed sanctions on the serbs west of the Drina, that old bastard. Can't remember the year now. He established the FRY in 1992! I thought he was out for a 'Greater Serbia'!? So, why didn't he incorporate these serbian areas west of the Drina into the new FRY? Remember, that was back in 1992. My conclusion is, that he realy didn't give a damn about them. Otherwise, why would he have done that? And do you remember, when he was in Pale with that Greek Prime Minister trying to sell the last peace plan to the Bosnian serb parliament. Without success! The bosnian serbs even showed him the way out, discussed and rejected. Slobo was p*ssed, but here he was right. After that the bosnian serbs got their asses whupped. Should have listened to old Slobo. But that's on their conscience, can't blame Slobo for that one, he told them so.

The strongest supporters for a unified Yugoslavia amongst all nations, were the serbs. That was always labeled as an indication of 'greater-serbia' tendencies and suppressing other nations within Yugoslavia. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Too much discord was sowed from the outside as well. Germany comes to mind.

Would you have followed a more enlightened course...

Hm..., but who would have enlightened Tudman, Izetbegovic and so on? That's easy to say, but the situation was a total chaos at the time. Interferences from outside, the most important political institutions blocked(the JNA by ZNG, 'President' Mesic officialy declaring he's out to destroy the country in poltical terms and so on), the economy shattered, newly created armies and states within the state, fighting, killing, chaos. The serbs did not only see the country, that was home and safety to their whole nation,beeing ripped appart, but also had to grasp they were ripped appart as a unified nation in this whole process(and I don't have to tell you how painfull and sorrowful it was in the last centuries to achieve this unification). Germany, the country that saw unification of it's nation a few months before, was hell bent to establish the Drina as the new border between serbs and serbs again. Man, believe me, these thoughts are driving me crazy again while I'm writing this. I consider Germany's role as pure evil in a historical context regarding the 1990's. Pitty, the BND and the Pentagon had congruent conceptions how to solve the serbian question in the balkans this time. Hope the BND isn't watching FR:)!

I contend that direct responsibility (commission) and negligence in addressing those crimes of comission (omission) do not extend up to the pinnacle of power as they do in the case of Milosevic and his forces in the Balkans

We can reasonably assume that, based on the difference in the organizational and power-base structure between these two.

But, realistically speaking, do you honestly know that Miloshevich knew and had direct control over each and every move of each and every company commander and/or Serb unit in both theaters of operations? I find that difficult to believe, as much as I find it difficult to believe that Gen. Westmoreland, let alone President Johnson, had similar knowledge and control over all and every unit and commander in the field.

That doesn't mean he didn't; it's just highly unlikely. I could be wrong of course.

Quite entertaining don't ya think? Poor old Hoplite hasn't recovered from the trashing he received from inquest. The idiot doesn't even know that Vera didn't post on slobodan-milosevic.org, but that someone else posted her remarks with her consent.... It goes along the lines of 'it was on pravda's web-site, therefore it is communist and means nothing', ignoring the fact of the original publication. Idiot, idiot, idiot. It's a pity his behavior is still on the level of a 4 year old... VRN

It is transparent that Hoplite will do anything to change the subject from the topic of the article (whose topic is HumWarrior race baiting lies exposed at the UN Tribunal)..........and he'll expend enormous effort to defend his Jihadist pals in Bosnia and Kosovo

Re: #75

What I am hinting at are two different approaches to command repsonsability:

(a) Ignorance of the law does not absolve a person of responsability. By the same token, in the spirit of the principle of holding commanders responsable for the actions of their subordinates, a chain of command in its entirety is included. In other words, it really doesn't matter how how far up the pinnacle of command/power an incident goes, does it? If the principle of ultimate negligence falls on the highest office holders, than it should not matter if the people in charge had knowledge and or control of every subordinate's action, right?

A perfect example of this would bw the ill-fated Tailhook incident involving Naval aviators, and all the heads that rolled.

(b) On the other hand, if the responsability is extended only to those who had immediate and direct knowledge of the acitivities (as in the case of My Lai), then Miloshevich's trial is flawed (unless the judges can produce hard evidence showing direct orders coming from Miloshevich himself to commit crimes, or covering up knolwegde of them) just as it may seem wrong to you that Gen. Westmoreland or President Johnson should have been put on trial for the war crimes committed by their troops.

Again, this is not comparing the righetousness or evil on either side, just the principle involved that a crime is a crime is a crime, regardless who commits it.

It seems to me that the distinction in the case of Miloshevich and Serbs in general is unprincipled and politically motivated. This is precisely the type of proceedings that brought about complete opposition of the United States to the world court.

Temporally "mismatched?" It's a tradition. It doesn't slow down traffic or cause headaches like inches, gallons, Farenheit and pounds do...while the entire world uses the metric system.

Srechan Bozhich to all ye metrically mismatched!

KOCTA

PS there is something called srecha -- luck; it comes from the word sretya. There is NO SUCH word as "sretan" in the Serbian language. In the old days it was spelled sretyan, and today it's spelled phonetically -- your pick (the old orthography was never outlawed).

Show me where Hitler directly ordered Babi Yar - whether through actually mentioning Babi Yar, or through explicitly ordering the deaths of Russian Jews....Now provide a direct order from Hitler or concede the point...

"Unlike his earlier conquests, Hitler ordered his generals in 1941 to conduct the war against the USSR as one of annihilation rather than capture and coercion."

You won't be getting a concession for Christmas, but enjoy your holiday anyway.

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