FBI director demands change in agency

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- FBI Director Robert Mueller has urged his agents to move swiftly in transforming their agency's mission from traditional law enforcement to intelligence gathering aimed at preventing terrorist acts, according to an internal memo.

"Change will be needed in many areas and needed quickly," Mueller told his employees in the memo, which was sent Friday and confirmed by FBI officials Monday. "Bureaucratic intransigence cannot be an impediment or excuse."

"From their actions in ignoring the obvious in TWA flight 800 . . "

Most assumed that initially too, including James Kallstrom, because of the initial reports of a fiery streak followed immediately by a huge fireball. However, Kallstrom, having convinced himself at the outset that TWA 800 was the victim of a missile shootdown, sat on a report for months that a U.S. satellite detected that Massive Fireball explosion about a mile above the surface, NOT at 13,800 feet where the Initial Event took place at 8:31:12. In short, the fiery events observed by the witnesses took place much later and much lower in the sky than initially assumed.

The timeline and altitudes of the major events of the TWA 800 disaster was approximately as follows:

8:31:11 Intact and climbing 747 approaches 13,800 feet.

8:31:12 Initiating Event at 13,800 feet followed immediately by the commencement of the decapitation process.

8:31:43-8:31:47 Streak of light appears.

8:31:47 Explosion of Massive Fireball at 5500-7500 feet.

8:31:55-8:31:57 Splashdown of the Massive Fireball flames.
Source - The "missile Witnesses" Myth.

Svp pardon mon Français. Cliquetez ici.

Additionally, TEN expert metallurgists who examined the TWA 800 wreckage reported finding no evidence that the 747 was the victim of a missile - or bomb - attack. One of them was the FBI's own Chief Forensic Metallurgist, William Tobin, but Kallstrom refused to believe him, having had his own neck bowed from the outset that the 747 was the victim of a missile shootdown.

Memorandum
To: Thomas H. Jourdan
From: William A. Tobin
Date: 07-15-97
Subject: Metallurgical Status Report: TWA 800

The last FBI metallurgical examinations or evaluations conducted of any significance, relating to damaged TWA 800 components, were in approximately October 1996.

As directed by you, on January 1, 1997, I elicited a commitment for the services of a retired research scientist and metallographic laboratory specializing in the aluminum alloys primarily comprising the Boeing 747-100.

Since May 1997, the scientist has been researching the location, morphology, and formation fracture mechanics of small holes with "spike tooth" fractures, the only metallurgically significant indicator present at a high strain rate. However, the holes are relatively small (none of which could reasonably have been responsible for "instantaneous" cessation of the recorders), exhibit no apparent preferred concentration, exhibit no apparent isotrophy, and are in matrices which exhibit no characteristics of impulsive loading or proximity to explosive (ordnance) materials.

The scientist has observed no indication of bomb or missile damage, and brings to ten the number of metallurgists officially examining and pronouncing the absence of bomb or missile damage, four from NTSB, three from Boeing, two from FBI Laboratory, and one scientist consultant.

It is noted that three of the aforementioned metallurgists could be considered to have a strong organizational interest in the finding that something other than mechanical failure initiated the catastrophic sequence of events.
Source.

Frankly I'd rather have HUNGRY people from third-rate schools with real world accumen than a bunch of spoiled Ivy Leaguers. I have attended 5 different schools - one top ten, two third rate, and one solid first tier, and you know what? The top 10 kids are mostly worthless for any real world needs you would have! Why? Because they are underexposed and have had little social adjustment. I'm painting them with a broad brush but this is the trend.

Mueller is a dumb choice for FBI director. I have no idea why they would put him there. Give him some cush job in the Justice Department (i.e. non-supervisory legal position). In all honesty a better candidate would be the graduate (i.e. Associates degree holder) of a third-rate law enforcement school who has run a border county's sheriff's department for a decade or so.

Government is not academia. Institutional education is extremely overrated. It rarely has a tenth of the value of raw experience as far as government work goes. Law degrees in particular seem to give people credibility far beyond the value added by that degree. This is probably OK if you're hiring a management consultant or something, but not a security chief for God's sake! Instinct, I want instinct!

I could name 10 of my police friends, military and civilian, that would make better FBI directors than anyone on the President's shortlist. Unfortunately, none of them have political connections and some have belonged to a (gasp) labor union so they are on the country clubbers' blacklist as far as high-level appointments are concerned...

Couldn't agree more. My sense is the FBI has a wretched reputation, mostly earned.

A cop friend told me if you want to be a good cop, you have to work where the crimes are. My personal opinion is despite the corruption, you're probably going to see the best cops in organizations like NYPD. Work homicide cases in New York for a decade and if you are talented, you're going to become a good homicide detective. Work homicide in Colorado Springs or Greenwich, Conn. and a big case comes along, you're not going to know what to do. By reputation, the FBI never got its hands dirty. When a big case came along, local police would do the work and the FBI would take the credit. Eventually, an organization's or an individual's reputation is a reasonable approximation of their merit. In the FBI's case, it took 90 years, but they've earned the reputation they deserve. So the FBI finds itself run by a lawyer who has never lead more than a few scores of prosecutors in the U.S. Attorney's office. He doesn't speak English very well. What does he know about counter-intelligence, Arab culture or the Muslim religion? He has nothing to offer. I'd bet the special agents in charge who run the FBI's local fiefdoms pay him even less heed than we do, because they know they'll be there and he won't. If they want to spend their time chasing a druggie who copped $100 knocking off the local branch of Riggs Bank, there's absolutely no one tell them they can't do that. So unfortunately, Americans are going to have to get used to losing a major metro area or two to nuclear detonations or smallpox. There's a news story tonight reporting the Iraqis got a virulent strain of weaponized smallpox from a Russian scientist. After the death toll rises a couple of orders of magnitude from September 11, the American people will be ready to fund a functional counter-intelligence agency. Meanwhile, we've got the FBI. If the FBI flipped to work on Al Qaeda's behalf, the U.S. would be better off.

...what a "shootown" conspiracy theorist's untenable sequential timeline looks like.

What's "untenable" about it? It, unlike yours, is based on the verifiable objective data from the radars that were painting TWA-800 during the entire event. Yours, on the other hand is based on WHAT? Your criticism seems to be based on Major Fred Meyers' report which is completely SUBJECTIVE... and as you point out, eyewitness reports must be evaluated with that knowledge. Human beings are NOT clocks and the awareness of subjective time can change with circumstances.

This graphic YOU label as "Major Meyer's (sic) Own Press Graphic" is NO SUCH THING. Major Meyers did not draw it. As it shows quite clearly it is an artist's (Paul D. Rodriguez) rendition of HIS interpretation of Meyers' description... and that is most likely based on published reports, not first hand description by Meyers.

As to your timeline,

8:31:43-8:31:47 Fiery streak appears.

8:31:47 Explosion of Massive Fireball at 5500-7500 feet.

8:31:55-8:31:57 Splashdown of the Massive Fireball flames.

the radar echoes DID NOT RETURN AN ECHO from TWA-800 after 20:31:44:29... the next sweep at 20:31:48:94 FAILS TO SHOW TWA-800 IN THE SKY AT ALL! It was either slightly above the radar horizon (nowhere near 5000 to 7500 feet) or in the Atlantic Ocean when YOU claim it was experiencing the "massive fireball" at 5000 to 7500 feet. Why didn't the radar see the pieces of TWA-800 at 4000 to 6500 feet on the next radar return??? Where was it Asmodeus?

Finally, if, as you claim, the fireball occurred at 20:31:47 and the splashdown occurred from 7 to 9 seconds later, that would require a fall rate of from ~556 to ~833 feet per second of a HOT GAS (which rises!) WITHOUT ACCELERATION from gravity!!! Asmodeus, this is not possible.

It is amazing that you can find some way to inject your pet theory into almost every thread you post in...

Witness Frederick C. Meyers' Own Press Graphic See "Source" At Lower Left

Are you alleging that Meyers never saw that graphic and/or that he disagreed with it?

You contend the following in your sequential timeline:

8:30:10 - Meyer sees "meteor like" streak flash accross his field of view.

8:31:13 - Meyer sees bright white Ordnance type explosion at 13,840 feet

8:31:39 - Meyer sees Massive Fireball explode at 7000 feet

In short, you contend that there was approximately [1] 63 seconds elapsed time between Meyer's first observation of the streak of light and his observation of a bright white light ordnance type explosion at approximately 13,800 feet and [2] an additional 26 seconds elapsed time between Meyer's observation of the bright white light ordnance type explosion and his observation of the Massive Fireball explosion at approximately 7000 feet.

Let's take a closer look at those two contentions - in reverse order:

[2] Click here for Meyers' detailed report. He obviously did not and could not have seen a "flak" shootdown of the airliner at 13,800 feet at 8:31:13 only (his estimate) 3-4 seconds before he saw the Massive Fireball explode at 5500-7500 feet at approximately 8:31:39.

[1] Witness Meyers was interviewed by an NTSB Witness Team on 11 January 1997, six months after the disaster and over a year before his above detailed presentation elsewhere. The NTSB interview was transcribed and is available for review by clicking here.

[excerpt][emphasis added]
"I saw to -- in front of me and slightly to my left of dead front I saw a streak of light in the sky. I have no idea what it was. And my reaction when I saw it was, what the hell is that? I observed it for somewhere in approximately three to five seconds moving in a gradually descending arc -- sort of a gentle descending trajectory. Similar to that which you would observe at night if you observed a shooting star. The difference is that it was red-orange in color and it was broad daylight."

Yet, you allege that he watched the streak of light for sixty-three seconds - ignoring the indication in his reports and press graphic that the streak of light was at all times descending while he watched it.

8:30:10 - Meyer sees "meteor like" streak flash accross his field of view.

8:31:13 - Meyer sees bright white Ordnance type explosion at 13,840 feet

8:31:39 - Meyer sees Massive Fireball explode at 7000 feet

Ignoring the fact that you have misquoted and thereby misrepresenting my timeline by omitting all events between 8:31:13 and 8:31:39, you very well know the time in that first post was a typographical error that should have read 8:31:10. This was noted and was corrected (with a corrected timeline) in a later post on that same thread... which you know.

Yet, you allege that he watched the streak of light for sixty-three seconds - ignoring the indication in his reports and press graphic that the streak of light was at all times descending while he watched it.

Now you are misrepresenting my timeline because of an error you already know about. From the context of my timeline, it is obvious the "8:30" was a typo as it is preceded and followed sequentially by times listed as "8:31", yet only YOU allege I postulated a "63 second" period. There IS no 63 seconds gap... there is only 29 seconds... as I posted to you when you railed about this minor error before. This, too, was discussed. Your use of outdated information is a fraud on the readers of this forum and a dishonest form of discussion.

21:30:10 - Major Fred Meyer sees "meteor like" object flash acorss his field of view.

"you very well know the time in that first post was a typographical error that should have read 8:31:10. This was noted and was corrected (with a corrected timeline) in a later post on that same thread... which you know."

Please post the URL of your posting correcting 21:30:10 to 8:31:10. In return, I'll then provide you with the URL's for two of your sequential timeline postings alleging the time was 21:30:10.

In the interim, let's assume for the sake of discussion that you meant to allege:

8:31:10 - Major Fred Meyer sees "meteor like" object flash acorss his field of view."

What math and/or radar returns were you relying on when making that allegation?

You also alleged in your sequential timeline:

20:31:13 - ~13,840 ft. ~1 sec. Missile strikes TWA800 on left side at approximately seat row 16-17 transects the passenger cabin spewing partially burned solid rocket fuel (and leaving a red residue on seats in this area), taking out passengers and seats in rows 17-18 and exits aircraft through right side. VDR ends in loud, strange sound. Bright white Ordnance type explosion occurs just after missile exits thin walled cabin . . . .

What math and/or radar returns were you relying on when making that allegation?

According to your sequential timeline, 26 seconds elapsed between Meyer's observation of the bright white light ordnance type explosion and his observation of the Massive Fireball explosion at approximately 7000 feet. Meyer clearly indicated only 3-4 seconds elapsed which is in irreconcilable conflict with your sequential timeline allegations. Your solution: Add a whopping 22-23 seconds and allege that elapsed time segment was 26 seconds, not the 3-4 seconds indicated by witness Meyer repeatedly over the years.

As you know, this is not some sort of internet fun game and the stakes are quite high. The Flight 800 conspiracy theorists allege that lots of people, thousands some of them say, should be in prison. Some others who disagree with the conspiracy theorists believe that when the families lawsuits against the manufacturing defendents have all been concluded, their lawyers will file emotional distress type lawsuits on behalf of the families against the Flight 800 conspiracy theorists, in which event the conspiracy theorists may well have to PROVE their accusations and allegations, which they have been unable to do for over six years now.

To the flight 800 families, I would like to add this: It is unfortunate that a small number of people, pursuing their own agendas, have persisted in making unfounded charges of a government cover-up in this investigation. These people do a grievous injustice to the many dedicated individuals, civilian and military, who have been involved in this investigation.

Some 75 NTSB staff members have participated in this investigation. I'll pause while their names are being listed on the screens in front of you. Collectively, they have more than 1,000 years of government and aviation industry experience. Many of them have served in the military, including service in Southeast Asia and in the Gulf War. These men and women, in my opinion, represent the best in U.S. government service.

I recognize that the TWA flight 800 investigation is technically complex, and that knowledgeable people can disagree over some of the substantive matters. But I take exception to those who consistently distort the record and persist in making unfounded charges of a cover-up. They do a disservice to us all -- but most especially to you, the TWA 800 families, who have suffered so much in this tragedy. And, for that I'm sorry. [emphasis added]
Statement of Jim Hall, Chairman National Transportation Safety Board at Opening of NTSB Board Meeting to Consider Final Report Crash of TWA Flight 800 August 22, 2000

Please post the URL of your posting correcting 21:30:10 to 8:31:10. In return, I'll then provide you with the URL's for two of your sequential timeline postings alleging the time was 21:30:10.

Here is the original correction statement, dated 09/04/2002, addressed TO YOU in reference to your absurd "63 seconds" assertion.

In addition, from your own site, where you have posted my timeline without permission, we find this footnote comment referring to the typographical errors:

"*These 3 times appear to be inadvertent errors as evidenced by their back to back placement location in "Swordmaker's" sequential timeline and the fact that all 3 would be after splashdown of the wreckage, obviously not his intent."

You are correct... it is an inadvertant error and I thank you for noting it. This occurred as I was correcting the earlier type re: the 21:30:10 which should have read 20:31:10. I am human. I make errors.

Yes, Asmodeus, in correcting the earlier typo relating to the erroneous minute, I inadvertently added a ONE HOUR error in those three lines... of which you demonstrate your knowledge by footnoting it. However, YOUR OWN SITE HAS THE CORRECTED MINUTE! This proves you knew of the error before you posted it on this thread and used it for a false attack on me.

FROM YOUR WEBSITE'S LISTING OF MY TIMELINE:

21:31:10* - Major Fred Meyer sees "meteor like" object flash acorss his field of view.

FROM YOUR CITATION IN REPLY #17 IN THIS THREAD:

8:30:10 - Meyer sees "meteor like" streak flash accross his field of view.

However, to base YOUR argument on something you have footnoted as inadvertant is disingenuous. To then post the KNOWN ERROR on this thread and use it as a basis for attacking my timeline is fraudulent.

As to the " What math and/or radar returns were you relying on when making that allegation?" question, the Fred Meyers observations were inserted where they seemed to fit according to the objective record from the radar returns. These are logical inferences from the statements, the evidence, and the math.

You have yet to provide ANY MATH at all to support your timeline. I again ask you to show how you can account for an event starting at 20:31:12, then incorporating EITHER zoom climb, and the known radar return times that show that TWA-800 HAD to have impacted the ocean at approximately 21:30:55 +/- 4 seconds? Please cite the laws of physics that lets all of that happen in the time measured between the last transponder response (20:31:12) and the last radar return (20:31:48:94).

Finally, Asmodeus, your thinly veiled THREAT about some future lawsuits for emotional injury by the TWA-800 families against those who are exercising their first amendment rights of free speech by discussing the disaster is reprehensible. It is merely ONE MORE ATTEMPT by you to squealch any discussion on this topic. My concern is not about anyone's emotions... it is about finding the truth.

You, sir, are hoist on your own petard!

Your "correction" posting [956 posted on 09/04/2002 6:01 PM PDT by Swordmaker] was followed by this "corrected version" of your sequential timeline:

[excerpt][emphasis yours]
Since I made a typo in the original, here is a corrected version of the Swordmaker timeline:

Let's see if we can construct Asmodeus' oft demanded timeline that our math seems to indicate occurred rather than his wacked out theory.

20:31:00 - Plane flying normally, altitude 13,400 ft., climbing at 33 ft/sec.

21:31:04 - Possible ground-to-air missile launch. Rate of climb accelerates to Mach 2.1.

21:31:07 - Mike Wire notices flare like object rising over house and arcing to left. in the next 8 seconds many more people notice streak, firework, etc.

21:31:10 - Major Fred Meyer sees "meteor like" object flash acorss his field of view.
[end excerpt]
959 posted on 09/04/2002 6:19 PM PDT by Swordmaker

By the way, what is my theory? Please include the reference source URL(s) you're relying on.

8:31:10 - Major Fred Meyer sees "meteor like" object flash acorss his field of view.

Asmodeus to Swordmaker
What math and/or radar returns were you relying on when making that allegation?

Swordmaker to Asmodeus
Fred Meyers observations were inserted where they seemed to fit according to the objective record from the radar returns. These are logical inferences from the statements, the evidence, and the math. [emphasis added]

Prove it. You won't because you can't. Making allegations based on where things seem to them to "fit" has been a trademark of the wannabe expert witness report analysts aka "shootdown" conspiracy theorists since the crash of TWA 800 over six years ago. As Jim Hall stated, they have been "consistently distorting the record".

Another example of a wannabe expert witness report analyst trying to make a witness report fit the missile shootdown allegations. By adding that 20+ seconds, you horrendously distorted witness Meyer's report.

"your thinly veiled THREAT about some future lawsuits for emotional injury by the TWA-800 families against those who are exercising their first amendment rights of free speech by discussing the disaster is reprehensible. It is merely ONE MORE ATTEMPT by you to squealch any discussion on this topic. My concern is not about anyone's emotions... it is about finding the truth." [emphasis yours]

The alleged "threat" is a figment of your fertile imagination. And distorting facts obscures the truth. And the truth is that TWA Flight 800 was NOT the victim of a missile(s) shootdown - or bomb.

By the way, we're still waiting for your concept of a "rebuttal" to The Sworn Testimony of FBI Chief Forensic Metallurgist William Tobin.

"The FBI is a living lie. This is an agency that counts abandoned stolen cars as felony arrests and chases petty bank robbers. Within the agency there is no management, technical, counter-intelligence, or Arab language expertise, no doctrine, no sources, no morale, and no desire to get any."

It was complaints about FBI Assistant Director James Kallstrom's unprofessional conduct during the TWA 800 investigation that led to The Grassley Hearing. The following is from that hearing:

[quote]
This is a story about how the world's preeminent law enforcement agency, at least in terms of image and expectation, sometimes acted like it did not even have a clue. I believe that each and every FBI agent and employee who showed up on the scene of that tragic crash did the best job they could and had the best motives. The same goes for the employees of the other agencies and groups that worked so hard. Many volunteered to do that, and they sacrificed their time and their commitment to a greater and humanitarian good.

There was a basic problem, however. In my view, it was one of leadership. FBI leadership in the case of the TWA Flight 800 was a disaster. The FBI says that its investigation in this case is a model for the future. The FBI believes that even now. I say that because of their testimony they submitted for this hearing. If the FBI still believes that after this hearing, then I think the American people should be very alarmed about whether or not the FBI gets the message, because this investigation, which by statute was supposed to be run by the NTSB but which was commandeered by the FBI, is a model of failure, not success. And anyone who doubts that is not confronting reality.

The testimony that we will hear today will describe three things. First, it will show how the FBI lacked the proper training to handle an investigation of this type and violated the most basic standards of forensic science in terms of collecting evidence, handling that evidence, and preserving the evidence. It is the kind of thing that would make even rookie cops wince.
[end quote]

Your "correction" posting [956 posted on 09/04/2002 6:01 PM PDT by Swordmaker] was followed by this "corrected version" of your sequential timeline:

And your point is? I have admitted I made a couple of typographical errors. SO WHAT! You are obsessed.

My point is quite simple... YOU posted a false argument on this thread attacking me on December 4, 2002, stating AS FACT that I contended that Meyers observations were separated by 63 seconds when that absurdity had been corrected in a post TO YOU on September 4, 2002, and footnoted BY YOU on your own website, a full NINETY DAYS before you attempted to ridicule my timeline by something YOU KNOW TO HAVE BEEN CORRECTED!

"And distorting facts obscures the truth.

I will continue to rely on the objective data (facts) rather than the SUBJECTIVE reports (opinions) of the REPORTS of the witnesses. We cannot go back and take another look at what Meyers saw... we can go back and review the tapes of the radar returns. I have shown that the laws of physics and ballistics, when applied to the objective data from the radar returns, PROVE there was no time for a 1500 - 3000 foot zoom climb and additional fall from a higher altitude. Your argument is based on YOUR interpretation of a third or fourth hand report of a SUBJECTIVE recollection by a witness.

By the way, what is my theory? Please include the reference source URL(s) you're relying on.

You know, Asmodeus, I really don't know what your theory is. You apparently believe that TWA-800 inexplicably spontaneously exploded from an undetermined cause. It is just apparent that you believe that the laws of nature can be set aside for your convenience. As to your requests for a URL, I cannot address the inside of your skull... nor would I care to.

As to your implied threat, I can read what you posted. I will leave it others who may drop into this thread and read your attempt to squealch discussion to determine who is imagining things.

As for me responding to you further, it won't happen on this thread. It appears to me to be inactive and my responding to you would have no effect on your opinion. Asmodeus, I do not live my life to please you or to continually respond to your demands. You are the offensive one here. I have better things to do than read your swill or bother myself with your "witness" mania.

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