[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

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A little old, but I don't think it's been posted before.

[Rodney King]

Well, I think that Israel has a right to the land by virtue of conquest, and that the U.S. has an interest in that by virture of Isreal being a democracy, anti-terrorist, etc.

I will say, however, that I think reasons #1 and #2 are totally bogus.

What Inhofe says is true, I just don't think it matters who left a scroll in a cave 3,000 years ago. Every nation on earth has changed owners since then. Are we to re-draw the boundaries of every nation based upon 3,000 year old borders?

Also, it takes a lot of chutzpah for someone who owns property in Oklahoma to make such a claim. The Indians were on his land only 150 years ago.

Anyway, this is not meant to be a swipe at Inhofe or Israel, it is a refelction of my beleif that the whole who was and wasn't there crapping in the bushes 3,000 years ago is so silly, that it really doesn't advance our cause.

The cause is this: God created us as individuals with inalienable rights. Freedom is the natural state of mankind, which includes the right not to be blown to bits by a bunch of warped individuals with completely irrational minds.

Under the view that we were all created equal, it is in the interest of all free men to promote freedom around the world, recognizing that the slavery or oppression of any individual is neccessarily a threat to our own freedom.

The Israelis sought freedom in a largely abandoned desert. They are surrounded by nations of murderous thugs, who oppress hundreds of millions. It is in our interest to defend Israel, and to bring down the murderous regiemes of Israel's enemies.

The Arab's are fanatics and are totally warped. But they are not neccessarily anymore warped then the Hitler Youth or the Japs who embraced freedom when they tasted it. It is therefore worth our while to promote freedom in the middle east.

I couldn't care less who took a wiz on a tree in Nazareth 3,000 years ago, and it has no effect on who I think should occupy that land now.

[Diogenesis]

#10 Only Israel has made sites available to all religions
(except Jews do not have access to the Temple Mount)

[gracex7]

I appreciate the effort of trying to reason with the world on why Israel has a right to the land, but only one reason matters...........BECAUSE GOD SAYS SO!!!!

[Johnny Shear]

Number Seven, I believe very strongly that we ought to support Israel; that she has a right to the land. This is the most important reason: Because God said so.

Bogus reason...And one which will keep the Middle East the cess pool of violence for eternity. Different people have different Religions. That's why we have the "Freedom of Religion" in the United States Constitution. It's funny how all the fundies forget that little fact when it suits their needs.

But then again, I believe the fundies are pushing this line of thinking just to bring about what they call Armageddon. Unfortunately, the rest of the world is going to have to pay for THEIR religious beliefs. Ironic how the fundies are the first to call Islam a "Gutter Religion" isn't it?

[Archie Bunker on steroids]

Israel also has a legitamate right to the West Bank, golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula. IMO

[TLBSHOW]

The British at that time said they were going to give the Jewish people a homeland

a side note, did you know it was the liberal owner of the Guardian newspaper in London that got the ball rolling for the Jewish people and helped get them the state of Israel ?

[Andy from Beaverton]

The ninth reason: Possession is nine tenth the law.

The tenth reason: I'm not going to tell ya.

[Anticommie]

7 Reasons Why Israel is Entitled to The Land

Reason 8 (really this only one is sufiicient to justify "palestine land" in Jews possession). When you start the war and lose it, your adversary takes part or all of your land, happened 100's times trough known history. The last exemple is Germany in last century. They started 2 worldwide wars lost both and as a result had theirs teritorry severly trimmed (eastern teritories to Poland, western to France). Nobody today questions this status quo.

So when Arabs started 3 wars with Israel in the last 50 years, were badly beaten in matter of days, Israeli "occupied" teritories belong now to Israel and nobady should question that. This one reason is sufficient for Israel to keep all the land.

[Ajnin]

Israel is able to bring more food out of a desert environment than any other country in the world

I might have to contest this one. I don't know how much food Israel gets out of the desert, but I do know that the Imperial Valley in California provides the entire world with lettuce. Of course it wouldn't get picked without an ample supply of lettuce pickers from Mexico.

[Koblenz]

The 3,000 year old argument is pure bunk, and I think everyone knows it. Use this argument, and you'll have to give all of Europe south of the Rhine to Rome / Italy. There have been conquests throughout history. The whole "God chose this land for us" is a bit silly too: let's keep religion out of this. There's one reason why Israel does have a right to it: the land was British after the Ottoman Empire fell, and they divided the lines the next time around. There wasn't really a country there before, and it wasn't as if one country invaded another sovereign nation and just took the land: the Ottoman empire lost the land in war. And while Israel may be our friends, that's not really a justification about why they get the land. There's only one justification, and that has to do with the fact that the victors got it and gave it to Israel.

[That Subliminal Kid]

How about seven reasons why nobody gives a damn?

[Polybius]

That day, Allenby sent World War 1 biplanes over the city of Jerusalem to do a reconnaissance mission. You have to understand that the Turks had at that time never seen an airplane. So there they were, flying around. They looked in the sky and saw these fascinating inventions and did not know what they were, and they were terrified by them. Then they were told they were going to be opposed by a man named Allenby the next day, which means, in their language, ``man sent from God'' or ``prophet from God.'' They dared not fight against a prophet from God, so the next morning, when Allenby went to take Jerusalem, he went in and captured it without firing a single shot.

(a_Turk: Turkish World War One aviation FYI )

While that makes a very cute story, the fact is that, at the time of the First, Second and Third Battles of Gaza in March, April and October, 1917, the Turkish forces in Palestine had seen aircraft before for the simple reason that they had their own combat aircraft which were piloted by German aviators.

The Air Battle over Palestine as told in the Kriegs-Chronik der Leipziger Neuesten Nachrichten. January 1917- December 1917

The Turkish Air Service aircraft included Rumpler reconnaissance aircraft as well as, at the time, state-of-the-art Fokker E.III fighters in 1916 and later Albatros D.III fighters in 1917.

The German aviators flying for the Turkish Air Service flew aircraft with the Turkish aviation national insignia which, in World War One, was a black square with a thin white line surrounding it.

Profile illustration of Fokker E.III flown by Hans-Joachim Buddecke, Turkish Air Service, 1916

The photo below is of Hans-Joachim Buddecke, one of the German pilots serving in the Turkish Air Service.

The fact that Jerusalem was made an open city had more to do with the fact that Allenby had a force of 88,000 men and artillery at the gates of Jerusalm after the fall of Gaza rather than the Turkish Army believing that their own aircraft were piloted by Germans but that British aircraft were piloted by Allah.

The Third Battle of Gaza, 1917

[ChadGore]

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel...to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations."
-- May 30 1967. Abdul Nasser

[ChadGore]

[Sparta]

All seven of these reasons are irrelevant. The main reason why Israel is entitled to the land is because they conquored it and they are capable of holding it.

[pgkdan]

Number Seven, I believe very strongly that we ought to support Israel; that she has a right to the land. This is the most important reason: Because God said so. As I said a minute ago, look it up in the book of Genesis. It is right up there on the desk.

This is the only reason that matters. It's the reason I will always support Israel against her enemies, whoever they are.

[PatrioticAmerican]

There is only one reason a nation will hold her land: Might. Might is right.

You don't think that we would have these united states if the indians could take it back, do you?

[LostTribe]

>Israelis have had a presence there for 3,000 years. They have been there for a long time. The coins, the cities, the pottery, the culture--there are other people, groups that are there, but there is no mistaking the fact that Israelis have been present in that land for 3,000 years.

I suspect you mean "Israelites" instead of "Israelies". The Israelites were certainly there in 1,000 BC, all 12(13) Tribes of them. They were ruled over in a common Kingdom by David.

Of course David was not a Jew. Like all the rest of them he was an Israelite. David was of the tribe of Judah, one of only 3 tribes which would later form the Southern Kingdom. Based on membership in that kingdom, it's members would become known as Jews many hundreds of years later, after only about 10% of them them returned from Babylonian exile.

Meanwhile, the other 10 tribes formed the Northern Kingdom and were never known as Jews. They went on to become known as The Celts, and have every claim their Jewish cousins have to all the promises. Today, as Europeans and Americans they provide the bulk of the funding which keeps their Jewish cousins resident on their joint property in that new nation which was named "Israel".

[Southack]

Those are great reasons for Israel to have their land. Here are my own:

1. Might makes right. To the victor goes the spoils, and as Saudi Arabia's ruling Saud family says "If you want to change us, then do so by the sword".

2. Good stewards. While in possession of their land, Israel has turned deserts into pastures, rocks into factories, and sand into tourist resort beaches. Moreover, the legal rights of ALL religions are respected and explicitly protected under Israeli law and rule.

3. The UN/U.S/and the previous owner (England) say so. Great Britain's Palestinian territory was formally divided into Palestine/Jordan and Israel by treaty, and formally recognized by the UN and all great powers.

4. Losers have no claim. Jerusalem's Grand Mufti went to Hitler to curry favor with the NAZI's. He expressed explicit support for Germany's anti-Jewish policies. Well, the Grand Mufti and Hitler got their heads handed to them in their ill-advised war on the civilized world. Too bad, so sad.

5. The claims against Israel are bogus. The Palestinians were kicked out of Palestine in September of 1969 by the Islamic King of Jordan after they tried to take over Hussein's entire country. Now they claim that their NEW homeland is the real Palestine (i.e. Israel). That dog won't hunt.

6. The behavior by the claimants is reprehensible. Palestinians engage in deliberate "peace-time" attacks on civilians. Exclusively murdering innocent civilians with no military value is hardly a a tactic that can be rewarded by suddenly caving in to their demands.

7. The Palestinians have a history of reneging on every deal that they enter. Even if their demands were met, they would soon be making other demands under the threat of renewed terrorism.