Experts: Arkia Airliner saved by secret defence systems

Ha'aretz Daily ^ | 29/11/02 | Roni Singer

[the_second_moon]

This is my translation from Ha'aretz Hebrew edition:

Weapon experts and intelligence sources claimed today that it was secret defence systems installed on the Arkia airliner, not luck, that saved the passengers.

The Boeing managed to escape from two heat seeking missiles after it took off Mombasa airfield.

"Israel work on plans to defend civilian ariliners from terror attacks since the 70s", told today Igal Eyal from the Hebrew University and a former intelligence agent. "the Mombasa incident looks like a successful implementation of amti-missile technology"

[cebadams]

From the prior posts I gather that there is a fair amount of consensus that the shooters were in the wrong position which contributed to the two misses. What would the right position have been?

[CurlyDave]

Check this link for the type of defense system they probably have: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/budget/fy2001/dot-e/airforce/01laircm.html

This is a good deal--uses a beam of light to confuse the missile, making it miss.

[Bobby777]

any clear view of the exhaust for that kind of weapon ...

[freepersup]

land temp. vs water temp. / in daylight wouldn't the surface of land heat up faster than the surface of water ? / so wind during the day would blow consistently inland along the coast / which would mean local aircraft would take off into the wind, or out to sea...

an inland flight path (takeoff) would occur if the winds were blowing out to sea strong enough, which isn't impossible as a front could be passing through or a storm could be brewing...

[freepersup]

Out of curiousity I checked the local weather in Mombasa / last report was for 3AM / it was raining and the winds were blowing inland at 11 mph. Seems that the a/c would likely head into the wind at 11 mph. I do not know if the rainy weather has the winds coming in off the sea, or if I was off on my theory for wind behavior, which is just the opposite of this. Inland during the day, and out to sea at night ? Perhaps some Navy personnel could report on the winds characteristics near shore / day and night.

[isthisnickcool]

I'll take a wait and see approach

I was sure Osama was dead. I chatted with someone tonight that said they were sure he was alive. The person would know. I can't expand on that. But I'd bet the odds are he is alive.

[The Real Deal]

That was on Drudge 3 days ago!

[Bobby777]

well, we may have to wait to see what the Mossad digs up ... so to speak ...

[AndrewC]

That was on Drudge 3 days ago!

My news must use donkeys for delivery.

[Cold Heat]

From my limited knowledge of this subject, combined with my extensive technical background, I can come up with a few things that make sense.

The sensor in the missile head would need a hot spot to lock on to. It would not have found one if it approached from the side or from directly below. The missile would have hit hot air.

It would need to come in from the rear to get a good lock. Modern commercial engines are high efficiency, as thus do not have as pretty of a heat signature, so this further complicates matters.

Due to the speed of the missile, if it were fired too close to the aircraft it likely would not be able to lock in and make the turn to come in from the back unless it were fired from just the right angle.

From what I know of defense systems, something needs to trigger it. A active radar source would be one type trigger, but a the airport, that would be a common occurrence. The system would not work, (unless you want flares and chaff spewing all over the place. The other trigger is manual. A plane taking off would not likely be able to sense a missile on approach. Particularly one with only a heat sensor and no radar guidance.

The strobe idea might work, but it would need to be turned on all the time. It would also be a visible mod to the aircraft.

I do not buy this evasive hardware story.

The idiots just plain missed again. That's all.

[em2vn]

Even if the missles weren't armed they could have torn away enough of the craft to have brought it down. Imagine the structural damage the two missles would have caused to the craft without hitting any fuel. Then imagine what would have happened if a fuel tank in a wing had been struck.

[John Jorsett]

He was just taking off. He would have had no opportunity to evade except to pop flares and there was no report of that. I wonder what the heck they are talking about?

Take a look here. (This is a google cache -- the original seems to be gone). Down toward the bottom:

But we can protect commercial jets. There's a system that affixes six sensors on the aircraft's wings and fuselage to detect and track the missile, fires a wide-beam laser to blind it, managed by a computer — all of that in much less time than it takes to describe it.

It also says that it's stuck in procurement in the U.S., but I wouldn't put it past the Israelis to have developed and deployed something similar. They're quite good at high tech stuff.

[Cold Heat]

I appreciate the info!

[Leisler]

Freon, or other type gas used to "cool down" the missile eye and contrast up the target.

It's not fool proof and requires a skilled and knowledgeable operator. I once saw a Red Eye at Ft. Bliss ignore a target rocket with flares on it's tail and go down range and punch through and through an unoccupied, green Army bus.

Sometimes the proximity fuses go off too soon, or too late, or not at all. Sometimes the missile will just go right into the engine, or punch through a wing. Another thing they will do is bounce along the side of the aircraft a few times then go off.

In the US Army, it takes months of schooling to get the most out of the operator and the missile system. Somehow I picture a couple of hookah smoking semi illiterates puzzling over a old Soviet/ Egyptian manual while watching BayWatch.

[Demidog]

Weapon experts and intelligence sources claimed today that it was secret defence systems installed on the Arkia airliner, not luck, that saved the passengers.

LOL! This alleged attack never occurred in the first place.

[Demidog]

The other scenario that is even more likely is that the claim of a missile attack was fabricated. It never happened.

[PatrioticAmerican]

There are several IR jammers that stay on and can confuse all but the most recent series of IR seekers. A commcerical aircraft could have several mounted without much to notice. Not that I know this aircraft had one, and it might have, but they would be a good countermeasure in the flat lands.

[strela]

Strela = arrow (Russian)

Definitely not from my side of the family. The ex probably got her welfare check and drank it up again ;)

[Cold Heat]

Thanks, I just learned about the laser confusers today.

[Cold Heat]

Where have ya been for a while Demi? I have missed your cogent comments and touch of cynicism for some time.:-)

Saw you on another thread for the first time in months.