Death of American Twins, Liberty and Freedom

Self

[Old philosopher]

Today, November 25, 2002, with the signature of George W. Bush creating the Department of Homeland Security, a milestone in the History of our great country was marked by the death of the Twin Pillars of our society, Freedom and Liberty.

The fight to keep alive these two foundations of our Nation has been a long and arduous one. The mercilous attacks on them have come from politicians on both sides of the aisle in their ever continuing grab for more and more power. Regardless of popular support for the twins, the political class has long sought to bring about their demise. In a "Bi-Partisan" effort both houses of Congress have voted to destroy the most important rights of the People, only a very few of the Congress opposed the death of these important twins.

Those of us who have known these twins for a long time will be very much saddened by their death, and those who have only known them briefly will soon learn how important they were to the Welfare and Security of our Great Country. With the death of Liberty and Freedom it will only be a short time until the Populace of this country will be living under a Dictatorship, controlled by an "Elite" class of politicians who will dictate every facet of our lives.

Requiem In Pacet!

[Kevin Curry]

What was that song by the B-52s?

You're living in your own private Idaho, Idaho
You're outta control, you're rivers that roll
You fell into the water and now you're n-idaho
Get outta the state, get outta the state you're in
You better beware

That's it. They just want their own private Idaho.

[Kevin Curry]

You should listen to your wiser elders . . .

If any should drop by to share their wisdom, I'll be sure to do that.

[Cultural Jihad]

I have plans to do so in the future ... there isn't much reason to stay.

'Tis a shame to see that you have such little vested interest in the direction and outcome of this nation.

[Hank Kerchief]

government ... will prey on the weak. Gangs of government goons will feast on the poor, on the handicapped, on the loners, on the ill-nourished.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

If you look at the history of this country, it is obvious, there was more freedom at the beginning than there is now, and that freedom has steadily decreased, and directly corresponds to the increase in government power. The reason freedom prevailed in this country is because government, especially federal government was so small. This is no longer true.

Do you know more people have been killed in this world by their own governments that have been killed by foreign invaders in all of history?

Government cannot provide freedom, it can only limit it.

Hank

[nopardons]

You posted my words back to me. Now, N-O-W you're saying that it was inresponse to YOUR OWN POST </B # 66 ? Illogical, nonsensical reply !

You have often giggles and happily stated that you're " living off " the rest of us, by taking your monthy SS stipend; a Big Brother / Big Government pyramid scam. You, it appears, are happy as a clam, to live off the government. Big government serves YOU, yet you attempt to paint, with a very broad brush, others as being not reall Conservatives, etc., because they don't agree with your version of things.

Stop being so Clintonian.

[Texasforever]

I am still trying to figure out how liberty and freedom are two different concepts.

[Hank Kerchief]

The single biggest and most efficacious defender of rights in the United States is not the libertarian's science fiction-addled philosophy. The single biggest and most efficacious defender of the rights of Americans is the government of the American people.

I am not a libertarian. Are you?

What is a right?

Hank

[nopardons]

Sounds very like. What they'll get ( should they EVER really get out ). is a rather rude awakening. They can't take that, so they just sit behind a screen and madly type their paranoia, onto the screen.

[Cultural Jihad]

Watch out that you don't stand between an anarcho-ideologue and the statist pension he's sponging off of others, in a principled way of course.

[Fred Mertz]

I agree. It is a shame. But that's the way it is and it's only going to get worse here.

[MissAmericanPie]

Like I stated, their prying goes far deeper than what you charge on your credit card or there wouldn't be a problem would there. Given her husband Bill's glee in using the IRS against his enemies, given her glee in demanding and hiding sealed FBI files on their enemies, the capabilities that have just been opened up for their abuse, by them, or someone like them, is not good.

While I trust Bush not to abuse these powers, I shudder to think of it in the hands of "no controlling legal authority", Gore or any demoncrat for that matter.

[nopardons]

Let's see ... there was more freedoms at the beginnings of this nation, than there are now . Is that what you think ? How many slaves are owned, by American citizens now, as opposed to in 1780 ? How many people have been thrown into debtors' prisons, today, as opposed to in 1780 ? How many people are indentured servants, restrained from voting ( and I AM talking about citizens ! )because they are black, female, don't own land , today , as opposed to 1780 ? The list of " good " things, that people, in high governemt office , have enacted, throughout this nation's history, is vast. Yes, there HAVE been some missteps and some horrid overstepping ; however, you vision of previous American history, is the Disnyfied, prettied up version.

Complete freedom ( which this nation's populace NEVER had ! ) is anarchy and chaos. Try reading factual histories; instead of rose colored glass, revisionistic ones.

[nopardons]

Right ... ROTFLMSO

[MissAmericanPie]

These guys are one of two things, ignorant of what happens if the spotlight gets put on an individual, or deliberately deceitful. No one cares if the government has the same info as credit companies, not that they really have any business with that either, this goes far deeper than that and it can be abused.

[nopardons]

Their ilk didn't and won't stop short of using any means to get their enemies and " precieved " enemies. There wasn't ANYTHING, when the Clintons were in power,that they wouldn't stoop to do. They used secret, taxpayer funded, PIs. They don't need Homeland Security.

Just keep working against allowing any of these people ( and I use the term loosely ), to ever regain the White House. Bush and his guys & gals won't use the same tactics. Neither will a vast number of others.

[chnsmok]

While I trust Bush not to abuse these powers, I shudder to think of it in the hands of "no controlling legal authority", Gore or any demoncrat for that matter.

Amen to that.

[FreeReign]

There is a fundamental conceptual contradiction between government and freedom. Government cannot provide freedom and all government always decreases freedom...

The U.S. Constitution does empower a government. Does the Constitution decrease freedom?

[William Terrell]

We haven't lost any of our essential liberty or basic freedom either.

You mean like enjoying the continuity of life, the air and sunshine, or some level above that?

[Cultural Jihad]

The U.S. Constitution does empower a government. Does the Constitution decrease freedom?

Hank has already stated that he is willing to take his chances with terrorists rather than with the Constitutional self-governance of free Americans.

[Kevin Curry]

The U.S. Constitution does empower a government.

Don't flummox the lummox.

It's isn't fair to cite the Constitution in a way that fails to support their anarchists' prejudices.

They are all in misery. Even poor William Terrell is barely able to squeeze his wet wiggling nose between the bars to sniff freedom from the far side, the dim sunlight falling coolly and cruelly on his wan, trout-belly white skin, taunting him with the higher freedom that might have been.

Wo, wo wo is them.