Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says

ALBUQUERQUE - While he told the world that a weather balloon went down in Roswell, an Army general had in his hand a memo telling Pentagon brass of a UFO crash with "victims," according to a new television documentary.

A computer analysis of that memo, held by Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey during a July 1947 press briefing, is the "smoking gun" of the Roswell Incident, researchers say in the documentary being broadcast today on the Sci-Fi Channel.

Using a digital photo scanner to enlarge and enhance words printed on the folded piece of paper Ramey held, and using another computer program to select the most likely words, researcher David Rudiak, who has a Ph.D. in physics from UC Berkeley, found two key phrases: "the victims of the wreck" and "in the 'disc' they will ship."

With the textual study plus University of New Mexico archaeological findings from one of three alleged UFO crash sites, science fiction seeks to close the gap with fact, producers say.

A photograph taken July 8, 1947, in Fort Worth, Texas, by James Bond Johnson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram shows Ramey clutching a communique to Washington, D.C., while he displays a deflated weather balloon just hours after other Army officers in Roswell had reported a UFO crash.

It was one of a series of inconsistent military reports about the incident, which has become part of American mythology.

"Unless national security is at stake, there is absolutely no reason to keep this information from the public," said Thomas Vitale, a Sci-Fi Channel vice president. "Whatever crashed at Roswell, let us know what the truth is."

The Air Force had responded to a 1994 call from the late U.S. Rep. Steve Schiff, R-N.M., by saying it had no information on the Roswell Incident. Schiff, an Air Force reserve judge advocate general's officer, then took his query to the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress.

In 1997, the Air Force acknowledged the weather balloon had been a false cover story, but a new story also was called into question. In a report written by Lt. William McAndrew, the Air Force suggested reports of alien bodies in the wreckage must have originated because of a crash-test program in which mannequins were dropped from balloons. The mannequins did not come close to matching 1947 descriptions of alien bodies, and the crash-test program was not introduced until 1953, Rudiak said.

Sci-Fi, guided by longtime Roswell UFO researchers Tom Carey and Don Schmitt, commissioned William Doleman, an archaeologist with UNM's Maxwell Museum of Anthropology, to excavate the alleged initial crash contact point on the ranch where the late Mack Brazel worked as foreman.

Doleman said he knows little about the Roswell Incident but agreed to excavate the site using purely scientific methods because it is "culturally significant" and because so much of what is circulated about the Roswell crash landing is based on hearsay. What was needed, Doleman said, was physical evidence.

"So this project is a very bold step by people who claim to know what happened and where it happened," Doleman said. "What makes it bold is they were willing to go out there and look for physical evidence."

Details of the excavation are being kept confidential until after today's premiere. But Doleman said he agrees "that obviously something happened in July 1947 in southeastern New Mexico." After his work there, though, he said, "I'm still uncertain" about UFOs and alien beings.

The documentary will introduce some witnesses who have not been heard from publicly before, attesting to the existence of alien bodies in the wreckage of the "flying disc," Carey said by phone from his home in Pennsylvania.

"This is where we loaded the bodies," he quotes one New Mexico witness, Robert Slusher, as saying. Slusher, among those appearing in the documentary, was part of a B-29 crew that he said loaded bodies up through the plane's bomb bay at the Roswell Army Airfield.

Three victims were supposedly recovered from the final crash site, and a team of archaeologists, coincidentally, were in the area doing research on ancient Indians at the time, Carey said. Among them was Curry Holden, an archaeologist from Texas Tech in Lubbock, whom Carey located in 1992.

"Curry Holden said he saw everything - the craft and the bodies," Carey said. Holden died a few months later.

Carey, an investigator for a private corporation, said he started looking into Roswell 12 years ago "as a hobby."

But it became more than that. And now, he said, he and Schmitt are in a race against time, as witnesses become scarcer.

I do think she has a very hard time seeing beyond her Roman biases. That may color her whole sale acceptance of some purported codes which may not be statistically significant at all.

I didn't see anything yet on her site about her criteria for a valid code or not. She sort of seems like a skilled layman in such matters but not much rigor of thought about valid criteria distinguishing between significant codes and chance happenings appearing as codes.

But her sources about NWO etc. certainly seem in concert with dreams, visions and many other sources of a number of other researchers.

I suspect the greatest power the new world order will ever have is in the processes they have initiated to bring the New World Order about. Once the World Government is brought about and its machinations are fully recognized, the elites will have a difficult time maintaining control even when brutal force is used...it is the entire world after all, even with fiendish technology at the elite's disposal.

They have more power staying disguised than becoming overt but the EVIL GENIUS behind it all doesn't want to remain disguised, he wants to be worshipped AS GOD! And that ultimately will be the chink in the New World Order's armor...PRIDEFUL HUBRIS!

It was a book written by Robert Heinlein, regarding a race of superintelligent "blob" like parasites that would attach themselves to your back(yes like that old star trek episode), and control you through your nervous system, rewarding you with extremely pleasurable endorphins while they acted to bring the world under their domination. Pry one of the creatures off, and the former host would become violently suicidal, apparently missing the sweet communion with the creature. I kinda forget exactly what they did to kill them off in the movie, some kind of chemical I think, replete with explosions and all the usual mayhem!

TAKEN SERIES . . .

WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL I should know by now that I'm going to be disappointed regardless of how well or how terrible such movies are.

I am not at the moment aware of any significant hint of anything that might be real beyond what was already well known.

IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE a pure entertainment/money making sort of thing.

It still leaves the ET=good/bad issue up in the air though it overtly came down on the side of ET=Good. I think there were enough other fear messages in the whole thing that it could be taken the other direction without too much trouble.

On the other hand, there did seem to be a lot of warm ooooey gooooey NEW AGEY SPACE BROTHERS values junk in it.

Maybe I've missed something but I think it's not that significant in terms of the over all field--except that so much time was devoted to it--maybe that was the big deal--legetimizing the subject much more with so much screen time.

Any other thoughts?

In the movie, Contact, the notion that there is nothing beyond us (we and the other civilizations out there) came through as central. Given that Carl Sagan was a determined agnostic if not so arrogant as to present himself as an atheist, that's to be expected. In Taken, the same theme wafts through, piecing together what the little girl character said and what her great granfather, John, said regarding his race having evolved to a point where they lack a sense of good and evil, right and wrong. But it was unsettling that this notion be presented absent a notion of a Creator of us all!

Sadly, the beliefs espoused through this series appear to fit a 'new age' religious perspective, fostered strongly by a reliance upon science and the lack of gentility to exercise faith on a personal level; faith not as the faith we exercise when using a money changing machine or seating our big behinds in a chair, but faith in the spiritual things hoped for, the spiritual things not seen.

I'm firmly convinced that the vast universe of stars beyond our own is there for a purpose ... more than as a light show for our enjoyment. Exactly what that purpose is, well, I have a few notions, conjectures, but nothing to offer for scientists to poke and prod, as yet. I've explored in earlier writings the notion of we humans being something special in this unverse, something really important to the evolving universe. Spielberg and his team have done the same thing, but it saddens me that they tried so desperately to remain religiously void in the effort. There was a way to inject the religious nature of humankind, without playing favorite to a particular religion. That Spielberg chose to do this project this way, absent God, I find too hollywoodesque, to damn PC to 'new age' beliefs. Perhaps that's what the writer and his sponsor had in mind, a dry vessel after lowering it into the well. Empty men write empty works, yet in today's shallow culture, such is considered depth of soul. Isn't Sartre dead yet? When will Hollyweird stop trying so hard for the existential, to be meaningful?

THANKS!

In the movie, Contact, the notion that there is nothing beyond us (we and the other civilizations out there) came through as central.

Q: I noticed that. really cheapened the whole thing, to me. Such mindless nonsense. Such a groping for independence to the extreme. Crazy and silly, to me. Back to the making man the sum and extent of all things. Sigh.

But it was unsettling that this notion be presented absent a notion of a Creator of us all!

Q: FOR SURE!

Sadly, the beliefs espoused through this series appear to fit a 'new age' religious perspective, fostered strongly by a reliance upon science and the lack of gentility to exercise faith on a personal level; faith not as the faith we exercise when using a money changing machine or seating our big behinds in a chair, but faith in the spiritual things hoped for, the spiritual things not seen.

Q YUP! STRONGLY AGREE.

I'm firmly convinced that the vast universe of stars beyond our own is there for a purpose ... more than as a light show for our enjoyment.

Q: I'm convinced of the same thing.

I've explored in earlier writings the notion of we humans being something special in this unverse, something really important to the evolving universe.

Q: I think it's basically just what God has said--he's rearing up those to RULE AND REIGN with Christ evidently thoughout the universES and future ages.

Spielberg and his team have done the same thing, but it saddens me that they tried so desperately to remain religiously void in the effort.

Q: Well said.

There was a way to inject the religious nature of humankind, without playing favorite to a particular religion.

Q: I agree--but not to be politically correct! Sheesh.

That Spielberg chose to do this project this way, absent God, I find too hollywoodesque, to damn PC to 'new age' beliefs.

Q: VERY PC--a la globalism flavor, it seems to me. Can't imagine offending anyone around the globe--which is such a crock--the same people who brought us PC will be shuffling masses off to the extermination camps because they don't march to a very specific drum in a very narrow and rigid line worshipping the global leader. Sounds pretty offensive to me!

Perhaps that's what the writer and his sponsor had in mind, a dry vessel after lowering it into the well. Empty men write empty works, yet in today's shallow culture, such is considered depth of soul.

Q: Well said.

Isn't Sartre dead yet? When will Hollyweird stop trying so hard for the existential, to be meaningful?

Q: I didn't even think they did existential very well. Talk about shallow existential--shallow they did well.

Anyway--was disappointed it was SUCH A HUGE waste in so many ways it didn't need to be. They could have done SO MUCH BETTER! Sigh.

Early on I wanted to believe the series would be good because I needed to be motivated to watch it all.

My final assesment is that I did not like it. It was not science fiction. It was merely fiction that took many loose ends and wrapped them into a mass.

The alien scientist John came to earth to study our branch of the space inhabiting species. He learned that humans were touchy feely and began an experiment involving taking humans into space ships for reasons never stated.

Over a period of generations, one of those taken, Charlie, was bred to an alien/earth native cross to produce the ultimate. That product was Allie.

Even though Charlie was third generation Taken, there was no indication as to why he was any different than his grand father. At the end when Allie removed the markers from all of the Taken assembled on the lawn, Charlie did not produce a shiny pellet from his head.

There was never a reason given as to why the cross between a taken and an alien/earth was any different from a cross between an ordinary earth person and alien/earth person.

Lastly, the whole question of genetics was botched. The failure to extrapolate good science makes the production merely fiction. The qualities the John wanted to breed into the alien stock ane not genetic and are not subject to selection. The qualities stated by John are the product of cultural evolution and are social, not biological.

As always, Hollywood missed the point to tell what it thought was a good story. There are no redeaming qualities.

I liked "Taken". I watched it all the way through and it was very entertaining.

One thing that REALLY pissed-me-off was the General's comment in the 9th episode...He was supposedly on the phone with President Bush and when he hung-up, he bashed him.

The General's character was simply unbelievable overall...He even had nice things to say about Crawford's grand daughter AFTER she had shot her boyfriend/the doctor in the BACK!!!???? He would have been court-marshalled after the way he ran his military operation. He told Crawford's crand daughter and the other scientist to just "Keep in touch" after they lost the little girl??? He didn't try to find her himself????? He just GAVE UP??? Please...

And Crawford's grand daughter was just HORRIBLE! That was the chick from "The Blair Witch Project". I liked her in that film but in this one, she was a HORRID actress. No wonder this is the best part she's gotten since then. She should be black-balled after this. She's WORTHLESS!!!

As for the Aliens...I don't know if the came-off as good guys or not. Remember the original surviving alien...The one who got the whole ball rolling? He got pretty nasty with his kid's half-siblings when they found that comic book with the picture of him on the cover.

And they way the loyal listeners of that Art Bell like guy were the ONLY ones to show-up at the farm was just IDIOTIC! He broadcast their intentions ALL OVER THE WORLD!!! The military wasn't monitoring that show? Please...

The confrontation between all the radio listeners and the military was horrible too. The listeners went and grabed guns but when they clashed not a single shot was fired???

The military's roll over the last few nights was just PATHETIC. VERY, VERY bad...They were all a bunch of CLOWNS! Breaches of security ALL OVER THE PLACE!! It could have ruined the entire mini-series but I guess I just didn't allow it too. Although they provided most of the "Eye Rolling" moments...Too many to list here.

The little girl got bashed in the reviews but I think she was head and sholders the best actor in the entire thing...And her character was the best too. A close second goes to the scientist...That guy who played Max Headroom.

Overall, I give it a 4 out of 5 stars. The JOKE of a military through the whole thing could have EASILY brought it down to a 2 out of 5 (ESPECIALLY the later-day military and all their security breaches) but the little girl saved it. I thought she was tremndous all around.

By the way...Can anyone find the Taken thread that's on Free Republic? I looked for it all last night and came up with nothing. Free Republic is great but the search feature sucks.

I think the existance of any life in the universe other than on Earth wrecks most all religions...

In the beginning, God made Adam and Eve...Not Adam, Even and little gray dudes.

Thus my basic problem with "Religion".

I believe there has GOT to be life out there. Do I believe they are visiting earth? Nope. But I would to think, and enjoy wondering if, it's possible.

I belive in God...I just don't think any religions on earth are correct. I have no doubt that the leaders of all religions are good, honest people...And I believe all of them ABSOLUTELY, POSITVELY believe their's is the "One true faith". But guess what? ONLY one of them CAN be correct. So,if Ghandi was correct, does that mean all the dead Popes and Mother Theresa are buring in hell? Hardly. I don't think God would be that cruel.

Charlie did not produce a shiny pellet from his head.

Charlie lost his earlier in the mini-series...I don't remember "Why" he did, but he did.

There was never a reason given as to why the cross between a taken and an alien/earth was any different from a cross between an ordinary earth person and alien/earth person.

They stated that Charlie was special because he was from a line of "Fighters". His grandfather, his father and even he fought the aliens. His father even went nuts doing so. That didn't happen to "All" of those who were "Taken".

I think it's safe to assume that Charlie was chosen to breed with Allie's mom because his line was a "Proven" fighting line. If he, his father, or his grandfather wouldn't have been "Fighters", he wouldn't have been chosen...

I think maybe the aliens put all those things in all those people's heads just so they could track and then find the "Proven Fighter". Proven through three generations. Three generations being chosen as proof for whatever reason.

I didn't know there WAS a TAKEN thread on FR.

I agree otherwise.

I also liked the girl.

I thought the "lapses with probable reality" were exceedingly many and too silly too often but I guess I over looked most of them to be entertained. Glad it wasn't the only thing I was doing.

As a UFO thing to see what the government might be using it to seed what thoughts or new information--I thought it was a total waste. Unless, PERHAPS, it was just the raw number of hours raising consciousness that much more. It just looked like a total entertainment/money making thing. I was greatly disappointed about that.

Anyway--a somewhat entertaining 20 hours.

Thanks for your comment.

Blessings,

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