Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says

AP | 11/22/02

[Davea]

Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says

By RICHARD BENKE | The Associated Press 11/22/2002

ALBUQUERQUE - While he told the world that a weather balloon went down in Roswell, an Army general had in his hand a memo telling Pentagon brass of a UFO crash with "victims," according to a new television documentary.

A computer analysis of that memo, held by Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey during a July 1947 press briefing, is the "smoking gun" of the Roswell Incident, researchers say in the documentary being broadcast today on the Sci-Fi Channel.

Using a digital photo scanner to enlarge and enhance words printed on the folded piece of paper Ramey held, and using another computer program to select the most likely words, researcher David Rudiak, who has a Ph.D. in physics from UC Berkeley, found two key phrases: "the victims of the wreck" and "in the 'disc' they will ship."

With the textual study plus University of New Mexico archaeological findings from one of three alleged UFO crash sites, science fiction seeks to close the gap with fact, producers say.

A photograph taken July 8, 1947, in Fort Worth, Texas, by James Bond Johnson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram shows Ramey clutching a communique to Washington, D.C., while he displays a deflated weather balloon just hours after other Army officers in Roswell had reported a UFO crash.

It was one of a series of inconsistent military reports about the incident, which has become part of American mythology.

"Unless national security is at stake, there is absolutely no reason to keep this information from the public," said Thomas Vitale, a Sci-Fi Channel vice president. "Whatever crashed at Roswell, let us know what the truth is."

The Air Force had responded to a 1994 call from the late U.S. Rep. Steve Schiff, R-N.M., by saying it had no information on the Roswell Incident. Schiff, an Air Force reserve judge advocate general's officer, then took his query to the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress.

In 1997, the Air Force acknowledged the weather balloon had been a false cover story, but a new story also was called into question. In a report written by Lt. William McAndrew, the Air Force suggested reports of alien bodies in the wreckage must have originated because of a crash-test program in which mannequins were dropped from balloons. The mannequins did not come close to matching 1947 descriptions of alien bodies, and the crash-test program was not introduced until 1953, Rudiak said.

Sci-Fi, guided by longtime Roswell UFO researchers Tom Carey and Don Schmitt, commissioned William Doleman, an archaeologist with UNM's Maxwell Museum of Anthropology, to excavate the alleged initial crash contact point on the ranch where the late Mack Brazel worked as foreman.

Doleman said he knows little about the Roswell Incident but agreed to excavate the site using purely scientific methods because it is "culturally significant" and because so much of what is circulated about the Roswell crash landing is based on hearsay. What was needed, Doleman said, was physical evidence.

"So this project is a very bold step by people who claim to know what happened and where it happened," Doleman said. "What makes it bold is they were willing to go out there and look for physical evidence."

Details of the excavation are being kept confidential until after today's premiere. But Doleman said he agrees "that obviously something happened in July 1947 in southeastern New Mexico." After his work there, though, he said, "I'm still uncertain" about UFOs and alien beings.

The documentary will introduce some witnesses who have not been heard from publicly before, attesting to the existence of alien bodies in the wreckage of the "flying disc," Carey said by phone from his home in Pennsylvania.

"This is where we loaded the bodies," he quotes one New Mexico witness, Robert Slusher, as saying. Slusher, among those appearing in the documentary, was part of a B-29 crew that he said loaded bodies up through the plane's bomb bay at the Roswell Army Airfield.

Three victims were supposedly recovered from the final crash site, and a team of archaeologists, coincidentally, were in the area doing research on ancient Indians at the time, Carey said. Among them was Curry Holden, an archaeologist from Texas Tech in Lubbock, whom Carey located in 1992.

"Curry Holden said he saw everything - the craft and the bodies," Carey said. Holden died a few months later.

Carey, an investigator for a private corporation, said he started looking into Roswell 12 years ago "as a hobby."

But it became more than that. And now, he said, he and Schmitt are in a race against time, as witnesses become scarcer.

©Santa Fe New Mexican 2002

[Quix]

BTW, Lets assume there are 10,000,000 pages of some level/quality of documentation available on the whole ET/UFO subject.

How many of them have you read?

Or do 110% of all your responses and opinions tumble out of your very rigid, tidy-little-box closet on cue?

[Undertow]

Since conspiracy theories are what this whole Roswell situation is about, there is something that has been bothering me since I watched the show.

Anybody else notice how anti-Republican this show was? Consider:

1. Bryant Gumbel, a diehard liberal whose hero is FDR, hosted it.

2. George H.W. Bush was slammed for refusing Mr. Peanut the Roswell files when he was director of CIA.

3. John Podesta, the little weenie from Willy's administration, was profiled as leading the whackos who want everything declassified. Podesta was shown railing against the current administration for refusing to "tell the American people the truth." (Why didn't somebody ask him why he didn't expose the truth during his EIGHT years in D.C.?)

4. Bill Richardson, another Clintonista, was referred to as "governor" and shown being terribly concerned about the whole situation.

In all fairness, Truman was bashed also. Of course, if he were alive today he'd probably be a Republican so that doesn't count.

Just some random thoughts.

[Quix]

Mercifully, SOME of us have the maturity and wisdom to realize we don't have it all figured out.

The sands of time wear lots of things down ozzy. Eventually, even your perspective will suffer or enjoy some significant alterations.

I hope the wearing leaves an enriching patina instead of devastating cracks in the granite.

[Quix]

True enough. Therefore what, I don't know.

Given the epidemic of liberal mindlessness and empty heartedness in the media business--i.e. talking heads and technical personnel seem to be 90 odd percent liberal down to their toe jam. So, what would we expect from any "documentary?"

I do suspect that the Dilldo and Shrillery types are just itching to use this whole ball of wax to yield a one world government with them on the top of the heap ASAP. And if UFO stuff/critters can be used to afford them more fun toys to do more of the world's population in with or to yield more of the world's population bowing the knee for various uhhhh services . . . all the better in Dilldo et al's views.

If anyone fits the description of a ruling elite wanting to reduce the world's population to a more easily managed 250,000,000 as some contend--the Dilldo and Shrillery fit the model.

Some say if we aren't wholesale well on the way to getting rid of our fossil fuel use by 2004--via ET zero-point energy generation etc. then the planet will a short number of years thereafter become rapidly dead in a list of ways.

Then there's the business of the ruling elite's dinking around with mysterious weapons they scarcely understand--supposedly threatening the whole galaxy or a string of galaxies with multidimensional chaos--something the ET's seriously want to prevent--but are unsure how to go about it and when given some supposedly heavy noninterventionist rules--prime directive and all.

Then there's the evil ET's the supposedly nice ET's want to help earth citizens wake up to and begin to fight more effectively before it's too late and we all become food slurry.

No end of interesting scenarios in this subject area.

What's fiction and what's real? God knows. Not sure anyone else does.

[Las Vegas Dave]

Anybody else notice how anti-Republican this show was?

Their looking for RAT votes in the desert and reservations.
Most UFO fans and their writers are Rats you know, (Dr. Steven Greer, Whitley Streiber, Peter Gerston et.al.)

Republicans in very high positions have seen UFO's also! Ever hear Ronald Reagan's statement for star-wars technology? Maybe he knew something? Hmmm??

[dinodino]

I'm not the one making the screwy claims without proof, Pal. Why don't YOU look in the mirror?

[Quix]

So, you are as pure as the driven snow.

As I recall, I was enjoying discussing what is AT LEAST a fascinating cultural phenomena--sharing a sampling of the information I've been exposed to. I'm noted a number of times that I can hardly guess what is true vs disinformation etc.

You are the one who decided you were "honor" bound (to tarnish a good word) to assault my sanity and integrity with rather groundless support therefore except your apriori biases and conventional dogma.

I am keenly aware of what's in my mirror. You are the one who seem so out of touch with such things. Perhaps your mirror is shattered--as you seem afraid your world view will be if you entertain the least bit of unconventionality. Ah well, enjoy your tidy little box while you are able. Lots of tidy little boxes are going to be obliterated to shredded before too awfully long.

Then we may see how boastful and confident of your construction on reality you are.

Until then, please, by all means--rant away. Assault away. You're a great example of a stereotypical naysayer without substance and without significant knowledge or authority regarding matters at hand.

[Quix]

It is a bit sad that you seem to be so emotionally threatened by information you insist is so false and groundless.

[Quix]

And the famous story of Nixon taking Jackie Gleason to see some dead critters and other artifacts--and those living with Gleason at the time--his wife??--describing him as white as a sheet when he returned.

Reagan's comment about the world uniting to defend against ET's--I think it was at the Iceland sumit--I knew at the time that he was knowingly or unknowingly being prophetic or setting things up for something. It was a LOT heavier statement than most people gave notice of.

[Quix]

BTW, I happen to HAVE a brother who's been there, done that etc.

Where's your brother who can prove otherwise?

[Quix]

I notice you haven't answered my HOW MANY PAGES HAVE YOU READ question.

I gues it's 0.0.

That would explain your vast knowledge on the subject!

[dinodino]

Sorry, I'll make sure I add

Alien Invasion and Paranoid Conspiracy Theories for Dummies

to my nightstand reading pile...

[Saturnalia]

TELL US THE TRUTH YOU REDHEADED DISPENSOR OF WISDOM!!!
WE KNOW THAT DON KING IS THE MESSIAH! ADMIT IT!@!@

[Senator Pardek]

And so are all of you.

[Scully]

WE KNOW THAT DON KING IS THE MESSIAH! ADMIT IT!@!@

Don King is not the Messiah...but there is one amongst us who is. I've been tracking his movements for nearly a year. ;-)

[Quix]

That might be a start.

As has been said,

If you aren't paranoid [in our era],

you aren't paying attention!

I do find it more convincing when rants
come from an experience of at least exposure
to tons of info/evidence.

[Quix]

I AM curious--genuinely curious--

WHERE, just where did you get such fierce ABSOLUTE confidence regarding such a complex, multidimensional, convoluted, mostly obscure and hidden mess of a topic?

It almost sounds tone-wise like you ascribe to yourself
supernatural, flawless, 100% certain all-knowingness about the topic.

Given what appears to be a sparseness of earned knowledge about the topic, such certainty seems exceedingly extreme.

[SlightOfTongue]

From things that I had been privy to, even thirty years ago at NSA, coupled with what is actually going on today, there's one thing I am certain of, my friend....

...you will not be bored much longer.

[F16Fighter]

"I think there's TONS of stuff both satan AND CERTAINLY GOD have yet to reveal. And then there's "neutral" forces, entities, probably civilizations and world which/who have chosen God's way or the opposition. And how do they factor in with all the straight forward demonic stuff."

We are told in the last days "Even the elect will be deceived."

True, many unexplainable mysteries will take place as spiritual battles for the literal souls of God inhabitants intensify between He and Satan. Some of us might say it's already begun. The apparent "material" evidence of ETs obviously further challenges the faith of believers, and will confound the masses, but again -- in the last days the Evil One is to be granted great powers to confuse, delude, and deceive. If mere mortal hypnotists are easily able to work their mojo on other mortals, just imagine the job Satan will be capable of.

Hold on tight -- it's gonna be bumpy ride, however thankfully we still know who is steering the thing ;-)

[SlightOfTongue]

These types, like Senator Pardek, will always criticise what they don't know and what they fear, caring not to do the research. It's their natural reaction not to 'think outside the box', nor delve seriously into things that are outside their 'comfort zone'.

To simplify, they will not accept what others tell them about an experience until they themselves have an encounter. Then they will join the ridiculed, the 'insane' and 'kook list'. Then and only then will they know and accept anything that is what they consider 'fringe'. Remember the claim "The earth is definitely flat" and "Man will never fly"?