Pat Robertson Persists: Islam 'Extreme and Violent'

CNSNEWS.com ^ | 11/15/02 | Marc Morano

[Stand Watch Listen]

Would you riot in the streets and threaten death over some foreigner's blasphemy?

Absolutely not, after all, Muhammad was just a _'prophet' .

[plain talk]

where people in this country say that Muslims are responsible for the killing of all Jews

who said this? apparently Powell is not carefully reading what Robertson is saying.

[agrace]

Wow. I am no fan of Pat Robertson's but the man's got my respect on this one.

[MEGoody]

"Pat Robertson knows more about Islam than the Muslims."

So do as Pat Robertson invited everyone to do, read the Quran (Koran). If you don't want to, then be careful with calling other who obviously have 'know it alls'.

[nypokerface]

Why are people silent on people like Robertson and Falwell? Because when your right, why argue.

[Helms]

I agree and Robertson offers religion for shut-ins. We would be amazed at his financial holdings. The sooner he and Jerry Fallwel get off the stage, the better. They actually hurt a party which no longer needs them.

The left wing press just loves to show them around, for obvious reasons.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

"PAT ROBERTSON: Well, Lee, I want everybody to understand that one disagreement, a minor disagreement among friends does not end a friendship; and so I'm not one throwing rocks at the President. I appreciate the President, appreciate what he's doing; and I want everybody to know that something like this does not sever the support that I have given to him over the years.

However, I want to clarify something. The purest expression of Islam in the world is found among the Wahabi sect of Saudi Arabia, and that sect pretty much dominates the religious life of Saudi Arabia and has been the fountainhead for the terrorists. The Wahabis in turn have established a pure Islamic state in Afghanistan, and the group in charge of that was called the Taliban.

The other pure Islamic state that we're familiar with is in Iran, where the Ayatollah Khomeini came in, and the word, [Ayat Allah] means "the spirit of Allah." He was establishing a pure, Islamic state. Now this state was characterized by our President as part of an "axis of evil."

The other state that I'm aware of that is a pure Islamic state is Sudan where Sharia is practiced and at least 2.5 million Christians have been killed. Now having said that, there is no doubt that the religion of Mohammed and those who adhere to it firmly, such as the Wahabis, and the Taliban and the Iranian Mullahs and other Mullahs operating in other parts of the world, is extreme and violent.

However, we must distinguish between the origin of the religion and the adherets to it in the United States who indeed are peaceful people. So to say "the religion is peaceful" I don't think is accurate. To say that most of the adherents in America to the Islamic faith are peaceful is absolutely correct. It's just a question of semantics, but I think we ought to get the semantics clear."

[LiteKeeper]

If it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, is it a "peaceful religion"? er, it must be a duck.

[TLBSHOW]

"[Our leaders] are intent on insisting that terrorism has nothing to do with Islam, when it has everything to do with Islam," Spencer said.

"When you are in a conflict and you don't know the true nature of your opponent, you are at a tremendous disadvantage," he added.

According to Spencer the "mainstream interpretation" of the religion of Islam is responsible for violent behavior because the text of the Koran has many passages inciting followers to violence.

"When the Koran says, 'Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them,' the extremists can point to that and many other verses of that kind and say: 'Look, this is what the religion teaches,'" Spencer said.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/787980/posts?page=1

[ppaul]

[Theo]

Know-it-alls like this never cease to amaze me....

From the lips of one who knows it all....

[CapedCrusader]

Gasoline, meet fire.

[spycatcher]

The Radical Islamic Mind

[Schmedlap]

Posted by FreedomPoster:
”Please, give us some details about Mr. Robertson's ignorance.”

Robertson was quoted as saying, ”Now that is what it says in the Koran, written by Muhammad," but this is incorrect. Muhammad did not write the Koran. It was written by his followers, shortly after his death.

Posted by MEGoody:
”So do as Pat Robertson invited everyone to do, read the Quran (Koran).”

It’s one thing for everyone to read the Koran. It is quite another for those people to interpret it and understand it. That is why I am skeptical of Pat Robertson, when Islamic scholars and the numerous practicing Muslims whom I know would strongly disagree with him. Sure, I could read the Koran (though I confess I would rather watch paint dry), but I doubt that I would gain as much of an understanding and mastery of it as practicing Muslims have.

Posted by Theo:
”From the lips of one who knows it all....”

I thought the two concluding, self-depricating sentences of my post addressed this.


If you find passages in the Koran that you interpret as encouraging violence, then does this make Islam a violent religion? What if you find passages that discourage and condemn violence? Then what?

I am equally baffled by non-Christians who declare Christianity to be a violent religion on account of the Crusades and pedophile priests as I am baffled by non-Muslims who declare Islam to be a violent religion because 20 out of the billion Muslims slammed planes into us. I see little difference between non-Muslims assuming to understand the Koran and non-Christians attempting to understand the Bible. If I had a degree in math, I would not be telling English teachers how to do their jobs.

Also, I hear constant cries from people (not in this thread) who declare that the Muslims have not once repudiated the actions of 9/11. Well, who, specifically do you want to repudiate it? Louis Farrahkan? Kweise Mfume? I have seen two threads on Free Republic from Muslims who decry the acts of 9/11 and encourage anyone who thinks it was A-ok to remove their head from their rectum. I assume that there were more than two, since I do not come here every day. I have read forwarded emails to the same effect. I have seen “man-on-the-street” interviews on the news that expressed these sentiments, as well.

I have served in the military with Muslims. I had a Muslim in my squad, throughout Ranger School, whom I would trust with my life. I have several Muslim friends in Bosnia-Herzegovina, whom I met while serving there. Some worked as my interpreters. Some are local politicians, local businessmen, and refugees. Most of them lost loved ones to Christian Serbs. Those Christians did not simply kill their loved ones - they brutally tortured them, in ways intended to be especially demeaning to the Islamic religion. But they do not decry Catholicism as a violent religion. None of these people are violent, and after 9/11 they have had to defend their religion against the likes of people like Pat Robertson and those who accept his words as authoritative on the subject.

I was in Bosnia after 9/11. In spite of whatever ridiculous footage you may have seen of that country on the news, it is not a barren, war-torn wasteland. Those people have internet connections and newspapers. They see what people in this country say and write about Islam. Their frustration at the misrepresentation of their religion is complicated by knowing that many Americans consider Islam to be the enemy and would thus view their attempts to set the record straight as further insult to injury. And, like any religion, there are a few fringe lunatics who think that America is the infidel and they point to the words of people like Pat Robertson. And when the mainstream Muslims of that country try to set those lunatics straight, the lunatics hold up the newspaper and point, "look at what they are saying about our religion. America is not an enemy to Islam?"

Obviously, I am not going to convince any of you, so I’ll stop now. Besides, I’m not an authority on the subject. That is why I listen to others who know what they are talking about. In regards to understanding of the Islamic religion, I think that practicing Muslims and Muslim scholars have a lot more credibility than Pat Robertson. I’ll let you read the point of view of an Islamic scholar and let you draw your own conclusions - or keep the ones that you have already reached. Whatever.

The link below is from:

http://www.islamfortoday.com/adi02.htm

The format is slightly different, since I cut and pasted this. For a format that is easier to read, use the link above. I am not sure why it doesn't show up as a hyperlink, so you will need to cut and paste it to your browser.

Imam Tammam Adi Ph.D of the Islamic Cultural Center, Eugene, Oregon, tackles widespread misconceptions and stereotypes about Muslims and Islam and the sets out the reality.

Allah: Just means God in Arabic, the same God we all worship.

jihad: Often mistranslated "holy war," especially against the West, the more accurate Arabic meaning is "struggle." Jihad is the struggle to control one's lower instincts. Jihad also means to use a fair war to give a nation freedom of religion if all other means fail. Islam's main proclamation is "No compulsion in religion" Koran 2:255. The Afghani Mujahideen (those who do jihad) fought against the atheist Russians to keep their freedom of religion. Unfortunately, chaos ensued.

extremism: "We made you a nation that should take the middle way in all its affairs before all humanity . . ." (2:143) "God does not love the excessive ones." (6:141)

suicide "martyrdom": "Do not kill yourselves." (4:29). Self-killers are condemned to hell. Even killing oneself to end extreme pain is unacceptable. Some radical sects, considered non-Muslim by most, view suicide-killing as legitimate.

martyrdom: A martyr (Arabic shaheed=witness) is somebody who dies as a witness for goodness or a witness against evil. A martyr testifies before God about the evil-doers that killed him/her and about the goodness his/her death creates in society.

terrorism: The punishment for those who wreak havoc is extremely harsh (5:33-34). Terrorism has as little to do with Islam as burning a cross to terrorize a black family has to do with Christianity. Terrorism is often done by haters of Islam, peace and justice to sabotage good Muslims causes such as peace settlements, democracy movements and modernization. No Islamic teaching supports terrorism.

on killing innocent people: "And do not kill the soul that God gave sanctity to except by law." (17:33) The Koran tells us that killing one person is like killing all humanity.

family values: Husbands and wives serve each other. Muslim families cherish traditional family values and close relations with the extended family. Women may work and own businesses, but the husband alone has the duty to provide for the family. Children are expected to take care of their parents when they get old.

treatment of women: Misinformation about this subject has fanned much of the hatred about Muslims. Here is what we are really taught: (1) Paradise is under the "feet" of the mother; (2) a good wife is half a man's religion, (3) men are ordered to "treat them in good ways," (Koran 4:19) and that, in the words of the Prophet Mohammed in his last sermon, (4) "the best of you is the one that is best to his wife."

four wives: Islam was the first religion to limit the number of wives. But the taking of more than one wife was meant to happen only when there was social necessity, such a during war times when there were a large number of widows and orphans. A husband is required to treat each wife with absolute fairness and equality and to have only one wife if he doubts he can be fair. Polygamy is illegal in America and, according to Islam, Muslims are bound by American law.

scarves for women: This is based on a verse in the Koran. "And let them spread their scarves over their shirt openings and not show their natural adornment . . ." (24:31) If Muslim women choose not to cover their head, there is no Islamic law punishing them or coercing them. Styles of dress are cultural and vary according to culture throughout the Islamic world.

female genital mutilation: This is found in some African countries and is a very painful tribal practice passed down to the present day. It is not based on Islamic teaching. Many Muslim women, such as the wife of the late Anwar Sadat, are working hard to eliminate the practice.

Deviations from the Islamic norm are cultural or political biases not based on Islam

[Schmedlap]

Sorry. I responded above, but forgot to ping you.

[NoControllingLegalAuthority]

All I read here is a lot of endless Islam bashing.

What started this thread is a story of Christian-bashing by none other than the President of the United States and his Secretary of State. The President does not have to bash Muslims and should not. He should not, however, characterize the Islam faith as something it is not. He should also not belittle Christians who dare speak the truth about what most Americans clearly believe.

The President says it is the sentiment of most Americans that Islam is a religion of peace. I have seen no private or public verification of that assertion. On the contrary, most Americans are very concerned about how the Islamic faith has fostered some of the most dangerous and murderous people and been their proud motivation to turn murderously upon innocents from one end of the globe to the other.

To President Bush and Secretary Powell, I'll quote from The Outlaw Josey Wales, "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining."

[MJM59]

IMHO, There is little difference between Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell denouncing Islam, and the likes of a Saddam Hussein, or an Osama Bin Laden denouncing Judaism and Christianity. They are all charismatic and powerful people using their influence to mold the perceptions of the people who follow them.

The main difference is their respective levels of zealotry and the amount of power that they hold over their followers. In this country, we are allowed to make up our own minds, and speak for ourselves. This freedom allows me to think for myself and I believe that for the most part Falwell and Robertson are full of it, so I pay little attention to their rhetoric. In the Middle East, their religious leaders are the all and end all. Speak up against them and your dead. They have the power to make people believe their interpretations of religious text and they use it to control their people into commiting these atrocities.

[NoControllingLegalAuthority]

Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are not responsible for killing innocents by the dozen as are Hussein and OBL. You have a strange sense of moral relativism comparing the first two with the second pair.

[Wallace T.]

You state that "It’s one thing for everyone to read the Koran. It is quite another for those people to interpret it and understand it." It is my understanding that Muslim leaders have generally disapproved of translations of the Koran into languages other than Arabic. The argument they make is that the Arabic tongue has subtleties that are lost when it is translated into other languages. Arabic is a cognate language to Hebrew, both being members of the Semitic family of languages, much as English is cognate to French or German. Yet the Hebrew Scripture, which Christian call the Old Testament, has been translated into numerous langauges. (The Gideons International, one of many Christian ministries that distribute the Bible, sponsors translations in 80 langauges in 175 countries.) One has to wonder why Muslims have been as reluctant into translating their holy book as Christians have been eager to translate theirs.

Perhaps the reluctance of Muslim clerics to promote Koranic translations stems from the general commands in the Koran to all Muslim believers to defeat pagan, Jewish, and Christian nations and to impose Koranic religious law on their non-Muslim subjects. The statements of Robertson, et. al. are on the mark in this regard. Their statements are refective of the conclusions of numerous evangelical Christian leaders. John Ankerberg, Max Lucado, D. James Kennedy, John MacArthur, Hank Haanegraff, R. C. Sproul, Mark Rushdoony, and Norman Geisler, among others, have made similar observations anout Islam. Traditional Roman Catholic sources, such as The Catholic Encyclopedia, dated 1911, have also noted the militant and oppressive nature of Islam.

No such commands are given to Christians in the Bible. The clear command to Christians is given in the Great Commission of Jesus Christ in Acts 1:8, to be witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the utmose ends of the earth.

Granted, the Jews were commanded to exterminate the Canaanites in a ruthless manner. However, this was a one time event and reflected God's judgement on a particularly wicked nation. The methods the Jews used to conquer the land God had promised to their forbear, Abraham, were basically the same as those the Angles and Saxons used in Britain, or the whites used in America. The Mosaic law also required the Jews to be just and fair to the foreigners who resided in their nation. Equal treatment of native born and foreigner under the law is an Old Testament concept, not a Greek or Roman one.

That there are those, such as the Serbians (who, FWIW, are Eastern Orthodox and not Roman Catholic) who tortured and murdered in the name of the Christian faith, is shameful. But the Serbs, in their actions, defied the teachings of Scripture. The Bosnian and Albanian Muslims who inflicted similar death and misery on the Serbs were in conformance with the Koran's teachings.