Peggy Noonen: "Them" [one group for whom liberals have no tolerance at all]

Wall Street Journal ^ | Nov 15, 2002 | Peggy Noonen

[The Raven]

There's a lot to think about this week--the rise of Nancy Pelosi, the meaning of the Republican triumph--but my thoughts keep tugging toward a group of people who are abused, ostracized and facing a cold winter. It's not right what we do to them, and we should pay attention.

[Grit]

I don't agree with the anti-smoking Nazis,

This statement seems refuted by the rest of your statements. What about the anti-smoking Nazi's ideas do you not agree with?

but smokers really do waste a lot of time on their smoke breaks,

Proof? Define 'waste'.

and there's a reason that they were moved outside.

So they could waste time? Be less productive? By the way, they look like heroin junkies in a shooting gallery when they stand outside huddled together in front of office buildings. ...NO, I'm not saying smoking is as bad as crank or heroin abuse, just drawing the analogy.

But you did say just that, twice. The analogy stinks more than the smoking.

[laredo44]

They accept death and illness as part of the equation...which also includes my picking up part of the tab for their health care costs one way or another.

So, is your beef with smokers, or those compelling you to pick up the health costs?

[texson66]

As Steve Martin used to say:

1st person: "Do you mind if I smoke?"

2nd person: "No, do you mind if I fart?"

[Skywalk]

My patience is wearing thin but OK.

1)While I do find smoking to be a disgusting habit that stinks up clothes, lips, breath, furniture, etc I AM AGAINST special taxes on cigarettes

2)I am against laws that interfere with owners of bars/clubs/restaurants/etc from deciding what their policy will be regarding smoking or drinking or whatever on their property

3)I do not wish to see smoking banned anywhere at any time

4)I DO think that in closed spaces, such as offices, where people have to work and produce for hours on end, that there should be SET-ASIDE rooms with proper ventilation for smokers OR they should go outside(smaller buildings won't have space for smoke rooms)

5)I did not like seeing one of my coworkers smoking while pregnant, but you know what? Not my problem.

Does this suffice? I wasn't aware that to NOT be a Health Nazi that one had to LOVE smoking as a habit.

[Skywalk]

Yes, for years I looked at the huddled masses in front and between office buildings and thought of the needle parks of the Netherlands.

And I stand by my analogy, BECAUSE an addiction to smoking burning leaves hardly qualifies one as essentially conservative. No more than overeaters are conservative because they are killing themselves with food. Please, let's not let our hate of the Health Nazis and do-gooders cloud our common sense.

You may smoke, and that's fine. Just realize that I can at times be unhappy with being around you without wanting to scold you or ban your behavior.

[Grit]

That's better. :o)

Does this suffice? I wasn't aware that to NOT be a Health Nazi that one had to LOVE smoking as a habit.

That's ok. A lot of people don't realize that at first. But without the likes of Joe Camel and the Marlboro man anymore its been hard luring in new addicts. I assume that you will start smoking now.

[philman_36]

And if they make a smoker's lounge, isn't that making SPECIAL concessions to them?
Seems to me I recall companies building whole day care centers for the children of working parents.
If you want to talk about "SPECIAL concessions"... how about those men's and women's restrooms! Whatsupwitdat?
What is wrong with just one big one for everyone? /sarcasm

[laredo44]

What is it exactly that I have to work on, sir?

Primarily, an understanding of liberty. Most jobs are at privately owned establishments. Since you are not compelled to work there, the owner, not you, gets to set the rules. You posted some silliness about how you have no objection to a well ventilated room for smokers, as if you get to set the rules.

Liberty generally requires that you act to extract yourself from that which you find unappealing rather than demand that others cease action.

[Skywalk]

Huh? *distracted by attempt to light tar-stick*

In the interests of full disclosure, I've "smoke socially" before and enjoyed a few cigars. In limited doses, I understand why people smoke, though it does still stink up the joint(and one's clothes) :)

[Skywalk]

LOL

So what if the buildings are privately owned? Many of the first restrictions on smoking came from private companies. The reason was because people were bothered by the smoke.

You're right, that I'd have to go somewhere to smoke, but in a FREE SOCIETY people are also allowed to request their employers set up a tolerable work environment.

Yeah, I guess if the boss wanted to hose me down with Kool Aid, I'd better just shut up or leave. But I become anti-liberty if I DARE ASK the man to call off the Kool-Aid Man.

[chilepepper]

Those (e.g. - the government and the left) have a hidden agenda in their attacks on smokers. It is an exercise in control, a way to get the sheep used to the removal of freedom without a bleat.

Smoking, like everything, is fine in moderation. I smoke cigars, outside in deference to my children, and do most of my heavy thinking while sipping chivas and smoking a contraband cuban bolivar belicoso...

[Skywalk]

Isn't up to the company to decide what concessions they will and won't make to employee requests? If they want to set up a smoking room(I've been in a place or two that had those) then fine.

BUT, what if they don't? Maybe it's unwise, depending how many smokers they employ, but isn't that their right?

[Drawsing]

we have people in the office who do bad impressions for half of the work-day away from their cube and nobody says a thing.

This is a really weird but funny work situation. I am picturing 3 or 4 guys wandering around between 8 am and 12 noon from cubicle to cubicle doing Elvis and James Cagney and Elmer Fudd impressions while the beleaguered workers sit helpless hoping they will go away.

[Grit]

I don't believe that PN was saying that smokers are more conservative because they are addicted to smoking burning leaves.

But I believe there is some truth to what she is saying. I have nothing but my own anecdotal evidence to support this. In my experience, smokers (that I know)tend to be more conservative. In addition to being more interesting, intelligent, thoughtful, considerate, funny, brave, clean and reverent. (Ok, those last 3 are Boy Scouts, but I stand by the rest as you stand by your analogy.)

Yes, for years I looked at the huddled masses in front and between office buildings and thought of the needle parks of the Netherlands.

I will grant that ostracized smokers huddled outside may look like a shooting gallery. But I think that do-gooders who turn up their noses at smokers look like...

Henry Waxman!

touche

[krb]

If lunch is 60 minutes...some smokers will take 30 minutes and add a few extra smoke breaks throughout the day.

BS

[Skywalk]

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH! You just violated my rights by causing an involuntary gag response!

[Grit]

Yeah, we smokers live dirty and fight dirty. ;)

[Skywalk]

I'll admit, Chris Tucker impersonators should also have to go outside to practice their habit!

[borisbob69]

Well...since that's what I do and I know others who do the same...where the hell do you get off just giving my comment a blanket BS?

[HapHaszard]

Sounds like a damn good reason to stay drunk to me.