Passive Smoking Doesn't Cause Cancer

You've made all my points much better than I could. We went through the same thing with my dad except he did quit smoking a couple years before he died.
He told me it was the hardest thing he had ever done, and a week before he died and new he was going, he told my sons, his grandsons to never start smoking, and that he had waited too late for it to help him much. We bacame really close the last 10 years of his life, I miss him terribly.

Next thing you know they will tell us eating fish is bad for you. Oh wait, they just did ....

In short.

All authoritarian states view people as property of the state. The people are a crop or a herd, to be kept at the highest level of productivity. By force. Health decisions are removed ( made illegal by law ) from the individuals. The state decides, by law, prohibitions, restrictions and criminal, those actions by people. The present political language of the health debate is a carbon copy of the Nazi's, Soviet Union, etc. Since the political philosophy is the same, the language the same, the laws the same, even the posters are the same (see my profile) I would say that in this case of smoking, it is a nice brick in the wall.

Add in other bricks of regulation of everything, i.d.'s, gun registration and control, establishment of nationwide centers of organized stupidity production( public schools ), infantilizing and feminizing of the populous, and add in historical degeneracy of the population at large, and, well, I feel that we are becoming more and more suitable for some sort of authoritarianism.

My dog in this fight isn't smoking. I don't smoke. But anything that increases the power of the state, which always comes at the expense of the individual, and free associations of individuals, I oppose.

Also, I find the arguments of people who gag at smoke pathetic. They live too soft lives.

It is always for the children.

This poster advertises the Nazi charity, the NSV. The text translates: "Health, child protection, fighting poverty, aiding travellers, community, helping mothers: These are the tasks of the National Socialist People's Charity. Become a member!" Courtesy of Dr. Robert D. Brooks

What Stopped My Smoking

May 16, 2002

By Cassandra Coleman

Testimony of Ms. Cassandra Coleman of Chicago, Illinois before the Senate Subcommittee on Oversight of Government Management, Restructuring, and the District of Columbia, May 14 — Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL), Chairman.

Chairman Durbin and members of the committee, let me begin by thanking you for holding this hearing and for inviting me to testify today.

My story is also the story of two wonderful children: my thirteen year-old son, Nijell, and my ten year-old daughter, Nzingha, who is with me today.

My son's name means "success" in Swahili, and Nzingha is named for a sixteenth-century African queen who fought with strength and courage to free her people from the slave trade. I never realized how well I named them until they helped me stop smoking — because Nzingha and Nijell truly helped me quit smoking and helped free me from addiction to nicotine.

Growing up as a young girl in Chicago, most of the women around me smoked. One of my role models was my sister-in-law, a tall, beautiful woman with long hair. She smoked, and she was so glamorous. I remember thinking that I wanted to be just like her.

I also remember watching TV with my friends, seeing all of the sophisticated, sexy ladies on our favorite programs. They all smoked too, so everyone seemed to be smoking cigarettes and I couldn't wait to try them.

I was about eleven years old when I started smoking. My girlfriends and I would buy cigarettes from vending machines, and in those days a pack cost fifty cents. If anyone asked us what we were doing, we just said we were buying them for our parents.

I had problems carrying Nzingha when I was pregnant with her, and she was born five weeks early. She had a low heart rate and other problems that placed her in the intensive care unit after her birth for three days.

I remember seeing her with so many tubes running into her tiny body. It reminded me of a poster I had seen at Cook County Hospital just four days before her birth. It warned pregnant women what smoking could do to their child — and there was a picture of a little baby with all kinds of tubes, just like the ones in my daughter.

Nzingha got out of the hospital and came home, but I kept on smoking.

In the months that followed, I had to take her to the emergency room over and over with breathing problems. The doctors told me she had upper airway disease, and by the time she was six months old she was getting nebulizer treatments four times a day.

This went on year after year, and the doctors told me to quit cigarettes. But I kept on smoking.

When Nzingha was almost four, I took her to the emergency room with an especially bad asthma attack. They told me her condition was so bad that if I had arrived just five minutes later, she probably would have died. A nurse pulled me aside and told me, "you're killing her with your cigarettes."

But I kept on smoking.

Instead of quitting, I put air cleaning machines around my house and started smoking in the bathroom to try and keep the smoke away from my kids.

But that didn't help much. When Nijell was about eight years old, he developed asthma and joined his sister in getting regular nebulizer treatments.

And me? I just kept on smoking.

Then, a couple of years ago, I began to have health problems of my own. I constantly felt weak, low on energy, and short of breath. I developed a cough that made me feel like there was always something in my lungs. When I went to get checked out, the medical people could never find anything really wrong with me — they'd just tell me to slow down. I remember one of the doctors found out how much I smoked and asked me: "Do you want to live or die?"

Well, of course, I wanted to live. But I also wanted to keep on smoking. So I did.

And I continued to feel worse and worse. Finally, January of last year, I was coming out of the bathroom after having a cigarette when I saw my daughter curled up on the bed crying. When I asked her what was wrong, she said, "Get away from me! You stink! You're trying to kill me with cigarettes."

Imagine hearing that from your own child. I promised her and myself then and there that I would quit smoking. And I knew I needed help.

I called Cook County Hospital and made an appointment for the smoking cessation program. I went next week — and I was motivated.

I kept seeing Nzingha's face and I knew I had to do it for her and for Nijell. I had the help of a wonderful doctor — Dr. Arthur Hoffman — who worked with me and taught me breathing techniques. He taught me how to relax and how to resist the urge to smoke.

It wasn't easy. But I did it. I quit, cold turkey. I'm proud to tell you that after twenty-five years of smoking two packs a day, I haven't had a cigarette in a year and I'm never going to have one again. I'm now working part-time in the smoking cessation program at Cook County Hospital trying to help others quit.

I can't tell you how much better I feel every day. I had gotten to the point where I couldn't even walk up the steps to my house without difficulty. Now I can almost run up those steps! I walk, I exercise more, and I don't have coughs and colds like I used to have.

My children couldn't be happier. Nijell and Nzingha are doing so much better, and we have not been to the emergency room in over a year.

And because I've quit, the rest of my life is going to be a lot longer than it would have been. That means more years raising and loving my children — and more years that I can help other women and girls avoid my mistakes.

We have to help the women, but it's the girls we really have to talk to. I tell as many girls as I can that smoking is a nasty and dangerous habit, and I tell them how hard it is to quit.

Sometimes in the smoking cessation program, I talk to people who've abused hard drugs, and they've told me that it's easier to kick a heroin or cocaine habit than it is to quit smoking cigarettes.

I also feel that young women need to resist the messages that we get every day about smoking from the media. Whether it's a soap opera or a magazine ad, images that make cigarettes seem attractive only lead women to an early grave.

Again, Mr. Chairman, thank you for this opportunity to tell you my story. I hope that together we can prevent any more women from becoming victims of tobacco.

Nonsense. My wife and I were both heavy smokers, and all our kids were excellent athletes. Your attempts to extrapolate from your own physical shortcomings to the rest of the world exemplifies that very "self-centeredness" that you decry. Sure, smoking cuts down on the wind of smokers, but that's their decision to make, not yours, and most certainly not the government's.

CIGARETTE ANYONE?

Why you shouldn't smoke and what it is like to have Emphysema from those with the disease.

Contributed by members of
EFFORTS
(Emphysema Foundation For Our Right To Survive)Click on above to visit our website

Most of us started smoking back in the 40's and 50's. The money spent, even back then, by the tobacco companies, were in the billions of dollars, just in advertisements and cigarette handouts. Even now, their advertising dollars are directed to the younger generation. If you would like a sampling of the older advertisements, we are thankful to Chickenhead.com for making these available to us. Just click on Cigarette Ads

Glenda Jones

I have a disease know as emphysema. I would like to give all teenagers a brief description of my life as a person with emphysema. The facts that I provide to you will be a true-life experience of my trials and tribulation of my disease. Young people sometimes do not realize that smoking can destroy their future. They do not understand the problems that can develop from smoking. They do not understand the affect it can have on their health.

When I was a young person, I never realized that smoking could diminish the most important factor in my life my breathing. When you can't breath you begin to realize how insignificant a cigarette can be in meeting your daily habit. I wish now I had never had a habit of smoking. I realize now breathing is a life function you can not live without, but cigarettes you can. If you had endured the pain I have suffered throughout the last ten years, you would never smoke a cigarette. I have had several collapsed lungs. I have had my back cut open, and had my lung partially removed. I have also spent months at a time in a hospital away from my family. The suffering is still not over; I now have to have my other lung partially removed. This procedure will prolong my life, for a later lung transplant.
Now, do you think I have suffered enough for my desire for a cigarette? If you smoke you could truly experience my life. I would never wish this disease on anyone. Please, think twice before you smoke. If you smoke now, please stop and remember the story of a lady who destroyed her life for a cigarette. We are sorry to report that we lost Glenda on January 15th, 2000

Jan Costilow

This is the way having emphysema makes me feel. Take a deep breath, blow out 20%, now walk around holding the rest in forever. Do you like to shop for new clothes? For me it is like running track while getting dressed, only you have to stop 3 or 4 times before you finish. It changes your whole life, nothing remains the same! Jan Costilow garyc@pcsystems.net Special Note: Jan has now received a lung transplant and is doing very well!

Pamela Costilow

My name is Pamela Costilow and I am 16 years old. I lived with my grandparents from the time I was two until I was 16. My grandmother, Janet Costilow was diagnosed with emphysema when I was about four. I have seen first hand what this horrifying disease can do to a person. My grandmother went from a person who could do anything she wanted to do, to a person who is on oxygen 24 hours a day. She used to be able to go places everyday. Now she is often to worn out to go to the store, and it is impossible for her to go shopping with out her motorized scooter and an oxygen canula in her nose. It's hard to believe that all of this has come from this disease. Over the years, I've watched my Grammy's health get worse and worse. As she has become sicker and sicker, it's been harder and harder for her to do things that she loves to do. It's difficult to watch her go through the things that she goes through. I feel guilty as I watch her struggle for each breath she takes, while I have no trouble breathing. I admit I have NO idea what this feels like to struggle for breath, but, by what I've seen, it's a feeling that I never want to experience.

Living with a person with COPD is not an easy task either. It is very stressful, and you have to be understanding. You have to be very careful, and most importantly, you have to realize that this person CANNOT BREATHE. they can't stand the smells that normal people can. You have to watch all of the things you wear around them, to make sure that the smell doesn't smother them. You need to clean a lot to make sure that the dust doesn't bother them. It's difficult, but not as difficult as having to except that the person that you love so much is suffering so much.

I admit that I got frustrated with my Grammy a lot of times... I didn't feel that it was fair that I had to do all this extra work when my friend's didn't. I didn't think that it was fair that I couldn't wear all the sweet smelling perfumes that all my friends got to wear. But, maybe I've grown up a little bit, because I see now that it's not fair that my Grammy is suffering from this disease. It's not fair that my Grammy can't breathe, it's not fair that all of her friends are still going out having fun with their family and friends and she is not able to. All this time I was selfishly thinking of myself when I still had all of my life ahead of me.

Maybe a lot of this was because I didn't fully understand my Grammy's disease. I'd heard of emphysema, and I knew that smoking could cause it, but I didn't really know the real effects of it. I didn't know what an impact it would have on my own life. It seems like these things only happen to people you don't know, but this is happening to someone I really care about. I do not want my Grammy to have to go through this. I wouldn't want this to happen to anyone-- not even my worst enemy, and it's horrible to see that my Grammy is living with this.

Of course I've considered smoking--- I mean, really and truly, who hasn't? And yes, even after seeing what my Grammy has been going through, I still considered it. I mean, I thought-- well, what are the chances that something like this, something this horrible, would happen to me? But then I really thought about it. Maybe I should be looking at the chances that this WON'T happen to me. Maybe there is greater chances that this WILL happen to me than that it WON'T. Maybe my Grammy thought this couldn't happen to her, but it did. And look at all those people that it did happen to. What makes me think that I'm so great that it won't happen to me? I'm no better or different than any of those people it did happen to. So every time that I watch someone light up that cigarette, I think of what I've seen my Grammy go through, and how, yes, it could happen very easily to me if I join the group of smokers. I just want everyone to really think about it before they start. It's not a glamorous life that my Grammy now has to live, and I really don't think that any thing is worth having to go through what she has to go through. I know that if everyone could witness what my Grammy has to do every day-- from all the medication she has to take, to the oxygen tanks she has to lug around with her, and if they saw how she struggles to do everything she does, they would make the same decision as I've made.
I hope I have enlightened a few of you and opened your eyes. Thank you for your time.
Pamela Costilow Please email my Grammy at garyc@pcsystems.net

Gary Bain

Update 9/3/00
Since I last sent the below message, I have been approved for a Lung Transplant. I also am now on full time oxygen where I have to have tubing around my ears and placed in my nose from an oxygen tank so I can breathe in more oxygen than what is in the normal air because my lungs do not work well enough. When I go outside, I have to wear or carry a tank that has oxygen in it so I can breathe better when I walk. I also now have to sleep with what they call a CPAP. It is like a hat that goes over your head and then hoses blow air into my nose so I can breathe better while I sleep. This is not me, but it looks like this;

My name is Gary Bain, I am 58 and a grandfather to a 12 year old boy, a 12 year old girl, an 11 year old girl, 2- 7 year old girls, a 6 year old girl, a 5 year old girl, a 4 year old boy, and a brand new 4 week old little boy. They all call me Paw Paw, except for the little guy and he just grins.
I started smoking when I was about 11 or 12 years old. I kept right on smoking and smoking until it got where I was having a hard time breathing. I went to the doctor and he told me that I had to quit smoking because I had Emphysema. Emphysema is mostly caused by smoking after a long time and you don't know you have it until it is too late. I could still breathe pretty good but couldn't walk as far as I used to but kept on smoking anyway because I did not believe the doctor. I still didn't quit until my 58th birthday which was just last February 28th. I can breathe better , as a matter of fact, if you will follow the instructions I have typed out below, you can tell how I can breathe now.
Sit down somewhere and relax a little and when you feel comfortable, take your right or left hand and with your thumb and forefinger, hold your nose shut. While holding your nose shut, cover your mouth tightly with the rest of your hand so you can just barely breathe through your fingers. Now, walk for about 40 steps and turn around and come back while still breathing through your hand.
Now, do you see how hard it is to breathe? Especially when you try to walk around? That is what Emphysema is and that is what smoking can do to you. Not for awhile, but when you are older and it is too late to do anything about it. Please don't even think about smoking.
If you have questions, you can email me at 1efforts@emphysema.net

My wife and I were both heavy smokers, and all our kids were excellent athletes.

Gary Anderson

My name is Gary Anderson and I suffer from emphysema. I have just retired from my position as a University Professor and Administrator.
Too intelligent to smoke? Obviously not. Age, sex, economic status, profession, and other factors do not appear to have any relationship to one's becoming a smoker or not.

I started smoking when I was eighteen, even though I was an athlete. "Everyone smokes" was the concept, so I joined the group. I smoked for almost forty years, with a total of three packages a day being the standard when I was entered into a hospital with congestive heart failure and pneumonia. At that time, I was told I had emphysema and must quit smoking. I did for two weeks, and then, knowing that this was an affliction for other people and wouldn't be a problem for me, I began to smoke again.

One year later I had to return to the hospital. I could not breathe without assistance of oxygen that flowed directly into my nose through a tube attachment. I still have that hose in my nose. I can not walk without effort, and even then must have a hand carried cylinder of oxygen with a hose attached which is inserted in my nose. At my home, we have a large machine which has a long hose attached to it so that I may walk around the house. This continues for twenty-four hours each day.

My wife and I had planned to travel when I retired, but now that is sharply curtailed because of the problems of obtaining and using oxygen cylinders. Also, I never really feel good like I did.

This is a major problem for me, but it is minor compared to my real problem---my youngest daughter smokes. "Everybody does" and "Daddy does, so it must be all right," was her thought. She still smokes. This affliction that I have will never happen to her! It does happen, and it will happen, unless she quits. Please, don't smoke.

Gary W Anderson EdD gwa0001@unt.edu We regret to advise that Gary passed on to our Lord on July 12th, 2001

#16....... Try as you might..........not funny.

Frankly if such minute exposure causes such an effect, it would be impossible for you to ever leave an air scrubbed room without suffocating. Possibly you exagerate?

#38........ Here we go again, my dad smoked and lived to be 90, my husband smoked from the age of 13, is now 70, doctor just told him he is healthy and have clear lungs.

Wisconsin Snowmobile Fatality Summary - 2000/2001 Season

Updated through January 3, 2002 - 10:00 am
Back to 2001/2002 Season Summary

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
1.	12-10-00	Milwaukee River	Fell through ice	24	0.210
	16:46	Ozaukee County		Male	WI

Victim fell through ice while operating a snowmobile.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
2.	12-23-00	Catfish Lake	Struck by another sled	45	0.026
	17:30	Vilas County		Male	WI

Victim was thrown from machine onto snowmobile trail and was hit by next sled.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
3.	12-26-00	Town of Hartland	Collision w/fixed object and another snowmobile	21	.00
	13:10	Shawano County		Male	WI

Victim hit a stop sign and another snowmobile on Mountain Bay Trail.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
4.	12-26-00	Town of Cooks Valley	Struck by following sled	19	.00
	23:00	Chippewa County		Male	WI

Victim passenger fell off the sled and was struck by a following machine.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
5.	12-31-00	Town of Colby	Struck by following sled	39	.0250
	18:25	Clark County		Male	WI

Victim's snowmobile broke down. He was a passenger on other snowmobile and fell off on a bump. Victim was struck by following snowmobile.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
6.	1-01-01	Town of Tomah	Struck by automobile	24	.00
	13:45	Monroe County		Male	WI

Snowmobile was being operated on wrong side of road facing oncoming traffic. When snowmobile started to cross road, snowmobile was struck by truck.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
7.	1-14-01	Town of King	Struck by automobile	56	0.151
	12:30	Lincoln County		Male	IL

Victim was struck in ditch along roadside. While snowmobile was being pushed, the track of the snowmobile suddenly caught projecting snowmobile out onto county road. Oncoming automobile struck snowmobile & driver.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
8.	01-20-01	Town of Ripon	Struck tree	30	.00
	16:15	Fond du Lac County		Male	WI

Victim was the 4th sled in a group of four. Victim missed missed a right-hand turn, flew off the trail and struck a tree. Victim was located by returning sledding group. Cause of accident: Unfamiliar area and speed.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
9.	01-20-01	Town New Haven	Struck tree	40	.164
	16:23	Adams County		Male	IL

Victim was operating on public snowmobile trail. Victim succumbed to the head and chest trauma caused by impact with trees.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
10.	01-20-01	Connors Lake	Struck a tree	44	0.122
	18:30	Sawyer County		Male	WI

Victim riding near Connors Lake on Trail #36, left the trail and hit a tree. Cause of death, multiple internal injuries.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
11.	01-24-01	Town of Cooks	Struck by another sled	28	.029
	20:45	Chippewa County		Male	WI

Two sleds were operating on a private trail approaching the crest of a hill. Snowmobile "A" was southbound and snowmobile "B" was northbound on the same trail. Snowmobiles collided at the crest of the hill. Operator and passenger on snowmobile "B" were the victims. Speed appears to be a factor in the accident.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
12.	01-24-01	Town of Cooks	Struck by another sled	4	N/A
	20:45	Chippewa County		Female	WI

Two sleds were operating on a private trail approaching the crest of a hill. Snowmobile "A" was southbound and snowmobile "B" was northbound on the same trail. Snowmobiles collided at the crest of the hill. Operator and passenger on snowmobile "B" were the victims. Speed appears to be a factor in the accident.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
13.	01-29-01	Town of Baldwin	Hit a rope	18	.00
	13:15	St. Croix County		Male	WI

Victim hit rope connected to posts as he was returning home from school on sled.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
14.	02-03-01	Town of Bashaw	Struck by another sled	21	.00
	17:35	Washburn County		Male	WI

Victim and a 2nd snowmobiler were operating on private property. Victim and a 2nd snowmobiler collided head on.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
15.	02-03-01	Town of Richfield	Struck a wire fence	25	.108
	17:56	Wood County		Male	WI

Victim was operating snowmobile adjacent to the Hwy. Victim struck 3-strand smooth wire fence. Victim was struck in throat and head. Alcohol may be a factor.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
16.	02-07-01	Town of Pine River	Struck a tree	67	.00
	16:46	Lincoln County		Male	WI

The Victim was southbound on trail near Shady Lane where the trail turns to the west. The Victim failed to negotiate the 90-degree turn and left the trail and struck a tree which was 2 feet off the trail. Victim was in front of a companion on another snowmobile.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
17.	02-10-01	Town of Lincoln	Struck a tree	23	.043
	01:00	Forest County	Failed to negotiate a corner	Male	WI

Victim failed to negotiate the 90-degree turn,left the trail, and struck a tree.

Accident #

Date

Location

Type & Cause

Age & Sex

BAC

18.

02-13-01

Town of Wolf River

Snowmobile overturned

23

.120

23:45

Outagamie County

Struck brush & branches

Male

WI

Victim left trail and proceeded into & through a ditch line. After striking brush and branches in the ditch, victim's snowmobile flipped over throwing victim off.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
19.	01-19-01	Town of Siren		20	N/A
	13:10	Burnett County	Struck by vehicle	Male	WI

Victim was struck by a truck while crossing Hwy. 35 and received multiple injuries. Victim was placed on life support until 02/13/01.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
20.	02-18-1	Town of Matteson	Struck tree	34	.156
	00:05	Waupaca County		Male	WI

Victim was in a party of 8 snowmobiles touring the trails when the victim failed to negotiate a 90-degree turn. Victim's sled hit a hard snow berm sending victim airborne off the sled, where he struck a tree.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
21.	02-21-01	Town of Stratford	Struck tree	25	.00
	14:40	Marathon County		Male	WI

Victim's snowmobile hit a snowdrift, became airborne striking the trail. Victim was ejected from the machine and struck a tree.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
22.	02-23-01	Town of Plainfield	Struck by truck	52	.00
	15:00	Waushara County		Male	WI

Victim was hit by pickup truck while crossing road.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
23.	02-23-01	Town of Washburn	Collision with another sled.	16	N/A
	11:50	Bayfield County		Male	MN

Victim and another snowmobile collided on a public trail (forest road) Victim passed away from injuries suffered during 02/17/01 accident.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
24.	02-24-01	Town of Lakewood	Struck tree	24	?
	00:18	Oconto County		Male	WI

Victim operating on a road not designated as a route and failed to negotiate a curve. Victim became airborne striking a tree.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
25.	03-15-01	Green Bay	Fell Through Ice	43	0.212
	00:30	Marinette County		Male	MI

Four males on 4 separate snowmobiles were traveling to Menominee MI, from Sturgeon Bay and became disoriented due to fog. Two of the riders went through the ice and were rescued by companions. The four men then road double on the two remaining sleds. As they continued to find their way, the victim operator and his passenger (victim #26) rode onto very thin ice and were lost in the water. The victim operator was recovered on 3-18-01.

Accident #	Date	Location	Type & Cause	Age & Sex	BAC
26.	03-15-01	Green Bay	Fell through ice	55	Unknown
	00:30	Marinette County		Male	MI

Four males on 4 separate snowmobiles were traveling to Menominee MI, from Sturgeon Bay and became disoriented due to fog. Two of the riders went through the ice and were rescued by companions. The four men then road double on the two remaining sleds. As they continued to find their way, the operator (victim#25) and victim (passenger) rode onto very thin ice, both men were lost in the water. The victim (passenger) is still missing.

Top of page

Home || Search || Feedback || What's New
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us
Legal notices and disclaimers
Last Revised: January 3, 2002

"#16....... Try as you might..........not funny"

I wasn't trying in the least to be funny, on the contrary deadly serious. I truly believe it's nearly the same thing if someone spits on me or blows smoke in my face. The only difference is spit doesn't have any long lasting effects. I was illustrating the absurd by being absurd. You smokers get angry if I say I have a right to spit in public where you may get in the line of fire, but see nothing wrong with blowing your smoke for others to breath.
As a true conservative I don't want to infringe on you ability to smoke, I just believe in self preservation. I don't go to places that I know I have to breath second hand smoke because it makes me sick. You can smoke all you want, but don't try to justify you habit to someone who has seen the direct effects on family members.

If they weren't smoking and kept their hand on the wheel those poor snowmobilers might still be with us.

Why don't you go back and play in your little sandbox.

Nice try, but as far as I can see these idiots only kill
themselves and it's accidental. None of them appeared to commit suicide.

, the oncologist told him that the lungs were still damaged, 15 years after he stopped.

So why are doctors telling people if they stop smoking today, their lungs will be like new in 1-2 years.

What an answer,
I feel like I'm at a gun fight, and I'm the only one armed. I'm going to watch tv, and go to bed. I get up early and run 3 miles every morning. If you got'em, smoke'em

People live, and then they die, even those too frightened to ever really live the way they want to.

Sometimes it's hard to be clear (let alone rational) from behind our keyboards.

:O)

Ah yes, metesky. You know what I meant!

(Isn't this a stupid smiley face? LOL!)