Was Patriarchy a Women's Scheme to Control Men?

self | 10/30/2002 | SauronOfMordor

[SauronOfMordor]

Does Patriarchy Benefit Women?

Much has been said in feminist circles about how women are oppressed by patriarchy. Patriarchy literally means “rule by fathers” and is a system where men effectively are in control of property and decision-making. An important characteristic of patriarchal systems is that they are generally also patrilineal (a child’s descent is described by who his father, and father’s father were, rather than through the mother’s line).

The question I’m putting forth here is: Does the patriarchal/patrilineal system act more to oppress women, or is it actually more a way for women to tap and control male energy? My assertion is that patriarchal society creates an incentive structure that enables women to harness male energy and initiative for the benefit of women and their children.

In patrilineal societies, men tend to be confident that the children of their household are theirs, and take an active role in their upbringing. The men also tend to perform long-range planning, and invest time and effort into making life better for their offspring.

Matrilineal societies have been recorded in early history, and still exist in sections of Africa. The matrilineal societies of ancient times did not leave much in the way of historical record. In modern times, where they exist, they are generally poor and technologically primitive. To some extent, the welfare enclaves of our inner cities are increasingly matrilineal. In the developing matrilineal societies in our inner cities, the defining characteristic is that males have no permanent attachment to the children they father, nor to the women who are the mothers of their children. In such an environment, males tend not to make long-range plans for the well-being of their children, nor do they make much effort to create the institutions that would be needed for long-term stability and prosperity.

In classic patriarchal cultures, men are motivated to amass wealth through the acquisition and enhancement of productive facilities: land, ships, businesses – things that will produce revenue to support a family, and which will provide an inheritance to pass along to their children. Part of the motivation is from love and emotional attachment. A large part of it is also pride and self-image -- the desire to leave a legacy, to be remembered as a great person after he's gone.

Having children who are emotionally attached to you has mutual benefits: the children can rely on support during their vulnerable years, and parents can have the expectation of support in their declining years. This can be very important in societies where survival is not assured unless you have a committed provider looking out for you.

Once someone has property, he has a strong incentive to promote institutions to protect and preserve his property. He bands together with his neighbors, in mutual protection. He has an incentive to cooperate with his neighbors to create improvements for their mutual benefit: roads, irrigation systems, etc. The incentive system promotes the institutions needed to preserve itself

Now let’s consider the incentive system for males in a matrilineal environment. When a man cohabits with a woman, he has no assurance of any of the children being his. He is less likely to experience any emotional bonding with them, and may consider them an interference with his relationship with the woman. He will have no expectation that the children will take care of him in his old age, and will be much less likely to make any investment in the children’s well-being.

In such an environment, the male won’t expect to survive much past the point where he’s no longer strong enough to obtain food and resources through his own strength. He’s likely to be invited to share the bed of a woman as long as he provides for her and protects her, and invited to leave when she acquires a better provider. The incentive will be to acquire wealth the fastest and easiest way he can: by getting together into a strong gang and taking it from somebody else. In matrilineal societies, whether in Somalia or South Central LA, the men tend to band together into warring gangs rather than engage in productive work.

In a competition between a patriarchal society and a matrilineal society, the patriarchal society will tend to prevail. The men of the patriarchal society are more likely to stand and fight off encroachments to territory they consider their property, while the men of the matrilineal society will be more likely to seek easier targets in another direction. A man will fight for his wife, his children, and his property – they are HIS, and part of his self-identity. A man is less likely to endure long-term conflict to protect the property of a woman he considers to be just a temporary girlfriend – it’s simpler to just find another girlfriend in an area with less conflict.

Comparing a patriarchal culture with a matrilineal culture, the advantages for women become apparent. By channeling male energy and imagination into long-term planning, patriarchy creates an environment where women and children are better provided for and better protected, thus better assuring long-term survival for all concerned.

[waterstraat]

"You must present yourself as one who is to be catered to, to be waited on. " I must strongly disagree. Anytime a person misrepresents his or her true self they are sowing the seeds of trouble down the road. Contrary to your statement "you must learn how to make men treat you the way you want" you cannot make someone to be anything. True change comes from deep within, not from being imposed from without.

Perhaps, you didnt like my choice of words.

YOu must learn how to have men "want" to cater to you, to want to wait on you, to want to get you a coffee, to want to grant your every wish, to want to make you happy, to want to protect you, to want to provide for you, and to wait on you.

Is that better?

[bcoffey]

"Is that better?"

Not really, because the foundation of your argument is still faulty. However, I'll remain silent for awhile until some other can weigh in.

[sonserae]

I did ask him for coffee...but he made no move to buy it for me. When he asked me out a second time, I sent him a long email talking about "human considerations" and that he was not thinking of my well-being when he drove away while I walked to my car. Of course, if a man treats you like this in the first place, they have no capacity for understanding when you try to explain it to them. He responded with "Well, it's not like we were in a relationship or anything."...I explained to him that I would give a ride to any of my friends whether we were in a relationship or not.

For anyone who doesn't live in Los Angeles, you don't understand. You can conduct yourself as a woman and command respect...but many of the men here have never ever learned to even have human considerations and manners let alone treating a woman "special". This is not a rare story. My friends and I have story after story. When we come across a well-mannered man, it is truly on the miraculous side. I know to date Southern men as they have been raised with manners and treat women with respect.

[waterstraat]

Consider yourself lucky you never see that guy again.

You are right, I dont live in Los Angeles, and I dont understand.

I dont buy the southern men fable anymore, I dont think there are much differences anymore between south and north. Chivalry, that old southern lifesyle and way of living, is, for the most part,,,,, Gone With the Wind.

There are plenty of intellegent gentlemen in Nebraska, and all over, but crude men are all over too, even in the south. Crude and selfish men outnumber the good ones, and seem to be more on the prowl. I do think you would have better luck finding a real man in a church. I also think that women who are not looking, see so many more good men, than those who are looking.

I know of a man who was just dumped, who is the most curteous, generous, successful, and nicest man in my circle of friends. I have absolutely no idea why that stupid girl dumped him, after 4 years, except maybe because he went fishig twice a week during the summer?

Some women are just programmed to self-destruct, and can not marry a good man. I have seen so many women dump fine men, and then end up marrying losers.

Somehow, I just dont think that California would be the place to look for a good man. Why would good conservative men go there?

[sonserae]

These men were from a church!!! They were all "so-called" Christians. I don't date non-Christians.
Tell your nice buddies there are a lot of nice girls in L.A. who are holding out for the nice guy...

[bcoffey]

"These men were from a church!!!"

There are many churches who have the goal of turning men into "nice little boys" and women into "faithful, dutiful servants." Perhaps that's part of the problem.

[SauronOfMordor]

The firefighter-awareness that swept the nation after 911 was, in all it's grim earnestness, a darkly comic display of the media's realization that, "hey, there are some men under these rocks over here. Have they been here the whole time?" Manly men who like to hang with other men, shooting the breeze, until it's time to put on some heavy protective clothing, ride on a loud fast vehicle to a dangerous situation.

I remember one particular picture from 9/11: a group of half-dozen firemen walking into the building. The youngest guy was looking up, and you could see in his face he realized he was probably going to die. The older ones just stared ahead

[longtermmemmory]

Actually I was in a hotel attending another seminar and had a chance to observe a rather large couples seminar. The seminar should have been entitled "I am right you are wrong, men should shut up in relationships"

[Desdemona]

For one thing, do not cut your hair short, it is your crown of glory, and most men I know love women with long hair. It will also keep you looking young, since so few women over 45 have long hair, and almost none over 50.

45???? Uh, I have a LONG way to go before I get there.

I don't know about the rest of Missouri, but St. Louis likes hockey (and our Blues are on a winning streak). There's plenty of men here who like hockey.

I like to dance, but ballroom.

I won't say anything about my appearance. I've been told it's better to be modest about it. But, uh, I sing opera. In fact I have a big competition in two weeks. I know, it's not in the pop culture so much, but I love it anyway. Oh, well, such is life.

[GirlNextDoor]

(borrow your brain?)

Feel free, bank, but I warn you, it doesn't always work right. ;-)

Could this have all started when women were given (and took) the right to vote?

Actually someone, I think it was RobRoy?, brought up the woman's right to vote angle to me. I think it's likely that's when the gradual downslide got the steam to evolve into a headlong rush to disaster...
Interesting that FDR was thrust upon us quite soon afterward.

I'm also coming to believe it may have been a double-barrel shot.
Isn't it interesting that the Scopes trials came only five years later?
I didn't realize that until RobRoy pointed out the other and got me thinking...

Wait! Then add to that the advent of "Hollywood".
Sheesh!In a short time society went under some major changes, not really even getting a chance to catch a breath and analyze where these changes may lead before the two World Wars came upon us.

For those w/ the urge to make the "light dawns on a marble head" comment...
hey, it is interesting and, as always, "better late than never"...
; )

[bankwalker]

that is such a stupid thing to say

Read my post again, waterstraat.

I posed a **QUESTION** because I was too busy to think it through.

I still think it is a valid question, and your response was irrelevant IMHO.

[Mamzelle]

The Nez-Perce Indians of the Deep South were also matrilineal, might be an interesting addition to your scholarship. Also, see if you can find George Gilder's "Sexual Suicide." He makes a very linear, rational case that men often become bums without a woman to "work for." (To achieve for, to "grow up" for) That a family makes the man, as well as the man makes the family. The feminists went crazy over Gilder's book...another good reason to read it.

[SauronOfMordor]

Actually I was in a hotel attending another seminar and had a chance to observe a rather large couples seminar. The seminar should have been entitled "I am right you are wrong, men should shut up in relationships"

A while back, I was reading a book by Warren Farrell. Farrell was on the board of directors of NOW, and held seminars like you describe. They were packed with couples. Women would drag their men over to hear Farrell expound on how wrong men were

Then at one point Farrell started making statements to the effect that both sides shared responsibility for the difficulties of the relationship, and he noticed his audience evaporating. Women didn't want to go to seminars that didn't make them right and men wrong. He finally did a bunch more research, and came out with "The Myth of Male Power" (Available at amazon.com). From a review of the book:

If you look at the cold hard facts this book presents, you will find that FACT - as a man, you will die 5-7 years earlier than a woman FACT - Mens Health is grossly underfunded compared to womens FACT - You will die from all major diseases in greater numbers than women FACT - You account for 95% of all workplace fatalities FACT - when all relevant factors are taken into consideration, women do not earn up to 50 cents per hour less than you, they earn the same FACT- You are 20 times more likely to receive the death penalty in the USA than a woman for the same crime FACT - You are five times more likely to commit suicide than a female FACT-You are more likely to be homeless FACT - You make up 99% of the workforce of the so called "Death professions" i.e. dangerous jobs such as firefighting, oil drilling, lumberjacks etc.

These facts are cited and referenced. There are many many more examples. He examines the Gulf War where feminists claimed female soldiers were sharing "equality of risk". Therefore they should qualify for the extra "danger money" that being on active duty in a conflict zone attracts. They got it. However, strangely, 27 men died for every US woman in the Gulf war, but there are only 9 men for every woman in the US army. Strange isn't it???

The problem that feminist have with this book seems to be that any focus on men's problems detracts from womens. This book captures the fact that life is not easy for men either. Farrell suggests for example that you consider the person who drives your garbage truck, unblocks your sewer, climbs the electricity pylons, builds the skyscrapers and brushes the streets. They're 99% men and he asks that the next time you hear about women doing low paid and menial jobs, you should think about the men who are doing the low paid and dangerous jobs.

[SauronOfMordor]

Too many men don't want to "change", "grow up", and are surprised when their wives initiate a divorce.

Too many women define "maturity" as "thinking like a woman".

Of my male friends who were surprised by their wives initiating a divorce, one got it immediately upon his business going bankrupt and his losing his ability to keep her living in the style she desired; another got had his wife leave him and the two kids to get an apartment by herself to (find herself); another got dumped in favor of a big-earning lawyer (who she initiated an affair with for a while before springing the divorce) because his managerial career was at a dead-end; the most recent found out his wife was having an affair with a "more exciting" guy she met over the internet, who she left him for, taking their 4 kids (he was too boring, spending most of his day working to provide for them)

[longtermmemmory]

"Could this have all started when women were given (and took) the right to vote?"

Not exactly, right to vote aside (if you want to be really picky at one point it was only land owners who could vote), feminists needed the consent of some men to reach their goals. The men who supported the feminst soon learned that feminist (non-homsexual) women were easy. Support feminism and it will get you sex. That is real reinforcement. Femninsts thought they were demonstrating independence by have sex whenever they felt like it. history tells us they were demonstrating bad judgment. The foolish men who went along for the easy sex have also been proven to have demonstrated bad judgment. Selfish results for a selfish movement.

[tictoc]

Holy moly, I just looked at your picture on your home page, which the hapless Sauron foolishly blabbed about.

Now listen to me. All the men on this thread are gay, ugly, bankrupt or in jail. Ignore them forevermore.

Let me tell you what I will do. My good friend Oscar Robles runs a coffee plantation in the Colombian highlands, where only the finest beans are grown.

I will have him personally select a batch of the very best his campesinos have picked. This will be delivered by air to a small roasting shop in Lombardy, Italy, where they still practice the fine art of making excellent stock even better.

Having received a 10-lb. bag of black gold, I will pack my Swiss-made Jura Classic espresso maker and get on the first flight to L.A. I also carry a set of gold-rimmed espresso and capuccino cups, the obligatory utensils for imbibing the nectar of Moctezuma.

In your kitchen, I will set up the Jura, and freshly grind the beans in the integrated unit while the cups are warmed to the right temperature on top. There are many cheap imitation espresso makers but none come close to a Jura.

The secret is just the right steam pressure. For the thick, foamy layer called "crema", 18 bars of steam pressure are a must. The crema traps the fine aromatics and the light gaseous flavors which register on the palate as a Mozart symphony plays to your ears.

Tap water is of course a no-no. Commercial water filters are fine for brewing tea but I will bring specially bottled water from the Scottish highlands that has just the right balance of minerals.

There. Close your eyes and smell the delicious aroma. Have I told you how charming and attractive you are yet? Yes? Doesn't matter, I'll tell you again.