Reuters: Raid Ends Moscow Theater Siege, 67 Hostages Die (Great quote inside)

Reuters ^ | Oct 26, 2002 | Elizabeth Piper

[eniapmot]

I caught NPR's small report on this:
"Russian troops stormed a theater this morning where Chechen rebels held a 3 day siege....67 hostages were killed...although the Russian government denies it, witnesses say that it appeared that the hostages were killed by the gas used by the Russian troops"

[demosthenes the elder]

"That group of hostages' heroism saved countless other hostages' lives" *** Just like United Flight 93!

you ain't wrong.

I hope Americans begin to wake the hell up and realize that the proper response when confronted with an armed aggressor is to attack or flee - not cower under a table.

I favor attacking, as a rule.

[thescourged1]

Right on.

Action is faster than reaction.

[DTA]

>>>>I favor attacking, as a rule.<<<

Let's call this rule "BEAMER'S RULE"

[TigersEye]

I caught NPR's small report on this:

Leave it to National Propaganda Radio to leave out "...750 hostages rescued..." and try to blame the rescuers for the deaths of the other hostages.

It certainly couldn't be the fault of the 50 Muslim rebels armed with real full-auto "assault weapons" and explosives who seized the hostages in the first place./sarcasm

One more time, NPR.
You are either with US or you are with the TERRORISTS!!!
Choose soon.

[toddst]

You think Putin will order that the bullets first be dipped in pig's blood?

Considering how many Muslims Mr. Putin has to deal with I don't believe he wants to send them into even more of a frenzy. I think just a straight-forward firing squad would send enough of a message.

[demosthenes the elder]

indeed. Beamer's Rule it must be.
So let it be written, and may God prove so let it be done.

[ExSoldier]

My late father was born in Moscow in 1907 and was a distant relative to the Romonov family---the Tsars. He came over just before the revolution--not through Ellis Island steerage class, but rather through Boston, first class with all their belongings. Graduated from MIT almost #1 in his class and became a successful architect and engineer.

I was born in 1957 and he raised me with two central ideas: NEVER ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE DISARMED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES (yep I'm SHOUTING from the mountaintop) and the only good communist is a DEAD communist. I agree with the sentiments expressed here.....but I'm very worried about the lurking strength of the communist party which is a wild card I don't wish to align myself with too closely.

Remember the old Reagan election ads? "There is a BEAR in the woods....and some people say he's harmless...." Well, the BEAR is still there and he is still dangerous.

I agree that we should bolster the Russians....but we must insure that the scourge of communism is banished from their land and souls forever...or we are risking everything.

[AdvisorB]

I agree with everything you posted. I for one, would not want an allince with a revanchist bolshevik restoration in Russia. I despise what the bolsheviks did to your father's family, and countless families throughout Russia and the world. We both know that the bolsheviks, the Nazis, and the present day left (most rats) all agreed with the proposition that the populace must be disarmed.

BTW, I remember vividly that great Reagan commercial about the bear in the woods. There was a terrific subliminal message there, of course, it went completely over the head of the left.

I may be wrong about this, but I think that Putin is a center-right guy. I believe that he champions himself as a Russian version of Pinochet without the epulets. Only time will tell, but I think the US can do business with this man.

[ExSoldier]

Thanks for your reply. I don't know about Putin....isn't he former KGB? And not just an agent. I think he was fairly high in the infrastructure of the bureau. I'd have to extend my dad's thoughts on communism to include the KGB specifically and I don't think you can argue that such a high ranking member of that deadly service did it because he wanted to further his career and this was the only way to do so in this strict system. It takes a dedicated communist to further the horrible agenda of the KGB.

[AdvisorB]

Yes, KGB. He was a KGB colonel posted to the so-called German Democratic Republic (what a joke). After his service in East Germany, Putin went to work for the reformist mayor of Sanct-Peterburg, Anatoly Sobchak. During the bolshevik attempted coup of August of 1991, Sobchak, allied himself with the commander of the Kronstadt, Captain Melnikov. Melnikov agreed to give Sobchak, Putin, and the rest of the local government sanctuary at Kronstadt. Instead, Sobchak rallied hundreds-of-thousands of Russians at the Palace Square. This rally, along with the support of the Russian military in St.Petersburg helped unravel the coup. It is interesting that Putin stood with Sobchak against the neo-bolsheviks.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that the jury is still out on Putin. Supporters and detractors can point to various things in his career that bolster their arguments. I suppose no one really knows, except pooty-poot (as our great President refers to him).

[cpdiii]

The Russians need the Americans. And the Americans need the Russians. And the world needs a powerful peaceful alliance.

Excellent analysis!

[Savage Beast]

That is excellent news. A powerful alliance between North America and Russia would be impregnable. India could be expected to become part of the alliance as would a confused and decadent Europe. Islamic imperialism is probably the catalyst that will forge the alliance and thus engender its own destruction.

[AdvisorB]

I believe that islamofascism is the new "bear in the woods"
We can't just contain this beast (no pun intended SB) we
have to hunt, corner, and kill it.

[Savage Beast]

"No pun intended, SB"

Thanks, Smorch.

Were you able to assess the Russians' appraisal of the cultural divide that seperates Americans into approximately 50% "Liberal" and 50% sane. Perhaps most people over there are not aware of it. I wonder what the Russians tend to think of the "Liberalism" that has confused Europe and North America so dangerously.

How do the Russians translate "Pootie-poot"?

[AdvisorB]

I think the Russians translation of "pootie-poot" is something like Peter the Great redux. Putin is riding a wave (70% in most Russian opinion polls) of support among Russians. Some Russians I talked to believe that he is a westernizer in the mold of Peter the first. Some also believe that toward the end of his second term, this 21st century Peter, will move the focus of political power back to the focus of Russian culture, Sanct-Peterburg, and away from the slavophilic Mockba.

I don't think the Russians have attained the kind of political or philosophic sophistication to differentiate between and among classical liberalism, leftist-liberalism, and euroschlorotic democratic/socialism (mutually exclusive terms, I believe). However, they understand that Conservative Republicans understand that the nature of the struggle in the beginning of this 21st century, is with islamofascism, a fascism that the Russians know only too well (Chechnya).

[Savage Beast]

Your observations are very enlightening.

Russia could use a 21st century Peter the Great.

The Islamic world is desperately in need of one. Peter could solve their problems--and ours--with dispatch. The "clash of civilizations" would be resolved swiftly and decisively.

Maybe Putin is Peter's reincarnation; if not, then his spiritual descendant. I make no inference about Peter's...benevolence. I'm speaking of his effectiveness.

[AdvisorB]

Thank you so much for the compliment.

I think your point is well taken about islamo-imperialism serving as a catalyst for the reshaping of national interests and global alliances. The by-product of this is, as you so correctly pointed out, is causing a fundamental rethinking on the part of Russians, American, and others (Indians, Chinese, Turks, Israelis) about how to deal with this metastisizing, cancerous, islamic fundamentalism. I think Vladimir the first realizes that the modern day Tatars are knocking at the door. Russia has a very overexposed underbelly, and needs allies. I suppose it doesn't hurt to have the last remaining superpower as a friend. Hence, I think the relationship can only get better.

[Trickyguy]

"Liquidated cockroaches." Think about what that literally--urp--means!

[MinuteGal]

Thanks to you and others for your informative comments. This thread is a pleasure to read.

Leni