Posted on 10/20/2002 7:48:19 AM PDT by SamAdams76
The photos above currently on the Drudge site concern me. I followed the link and the article clearly stated that nobody was arrested last night.
Why then, do we have drivers of white vans, innocent civilians, evidently being pulled out vans at gunpoint and treated like dangerous criminals? One photo shows a man on the ground, evidently in handcuffs, with police officers standing over him as though they have just captured Whitey Bulger. When I first saw the photo, I figured the man was obviously a wanted criminal that police just so happened to come across during their search. But since there were no arrests last night, this man was obviously released and was no criminal after all.
The other photo shows a man by another white van with his hands in the air and a police officer has a gun drawn on him. Again, this was evidently just another innocent civilian who had the misfortune to be driving a white van on I-95 last night.
Now I understand the need for these roadblocks and for the police to be very thorough in their search for the sniper(s). But I cannot see the point of innocent people dragged out of their vehicles at gunpoint with no pretext other than the fact that they happen to be driving a white van.
Now maybe somebody here has an explanation why these two individuals were treated like criminals. Maybe they tried to evade the police or maybe they were driving stolen vans. But again, there were no arrests made last night. So what is the deal with our citizens being treated like Jesse James just for driving a white van?
Stopping all white vans is a low percentage shot, and one that will cost heavily in lining up future shots.
What has happened here is that officialdom is acting in it's worst official-dumb mode -- feeling it necessary to be seen doing "something". That something -- like most half-cocked, half-baked schemes -- will cost us greatly in many ways. One way -- It's like working the wrong muscle groups in practising a golf swing. Better not to swing at all, then to have the wrong muscles develop and muscle-memories establish.
You wrote: #410 Step carefully now... you or your husband could be be tagged as cop-haters seedy, or worse! And, by the way, whatever you do, *don't* think about considering a reply as pointing towards the sheeple mentality. FReegards.
#352 'good citizenship', doing everything the authorities tell you to do? baaa baaaa 
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Nothing at all wrong with my reading. Is this enough evidence for you?
Nice try at obfuscation though. At least make an attempt at taking personal responsibility for your own words.
And just because you think it is, doesn't make it so.
I have seen this post, and to an amateur anyway, they appear to be good ideas.
So why, in your opinion, aren't things like that being tried? Or are they being tried as well?
None of this is occurring in any kind of a vacuum now -- every possible idea, from everywhere, is undoubtedly available to them.
I don't have a job where I put my life on the line every day...but I'm sure not about to cast aspersions on those who do for taking every action possible to both capture/kill the perps and remain living themselves.
If that means in this case being hauled out of my white Explorer or black Outback at a freeway roadblock, I'm willing to compromise that much of my "Constitutional freedom" or even my "dignity" for the much greater purpose of ending the reign of terror.
*don't* think about considering a reply as pointing towards the sheeple mentality.The name calling *or worse* that you have raised is garbage.
Hard, ain't it? Yes, sir, it can be the hardest of all tactics.
A great American told his farmers and tradesmen thus: "Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes!" A very hard thing to hold back your finger from that trigger while well-armed and trained killers are charging at you, yet dang-it, those boys did it!
They were heros for waiting!
That day they waited so heroically was 17 June 1775 at Bunker Hill on the heights outside Boston. The famous fighting motto we should all take to heart in these days was spoken by the then 57 year old Colonel Israel Putnam.
"Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes!
You are as clueless as you are offensive.
You owe Ladyinred an apology, but I doubt very much you have the class to see that.
Facinating isn't it. I just logged on and thought the same thing. Four-hundred plus posts and virtually no substance on this issue of people in white vans being treated as criminals and the obvious suspension of Constitutional rights.
I do notice several trends though.
1) Most people here don't know constitutional law, criminal law, Virginia law, criminal procedure etc.
2) Most of the outraged people aren't living within 15 miles of 8 of the shooting, like I am. In fact, most of them aren't in the line of fire at all.
I have been leered at in these dragnets twice now. And I can tell you, I was never so damn happy to be looked at carefully by masked and unmasked law enforcement officials with automatic weapons.
Here's a few facts: 1) Police have released a composit sketch of a white van with certain attributes as being possibly tied to one or more of the shootings based on eye-witness accounts.
2) The police placed an APB accross police scanners last night indicating that a white van with certain charateristics was seen near the shooting in Ashland.
3) Police laid-down dragnets in concentric circles based on their investigated information, the time of the shooting, and the distance a possible perp might have driven. 4) FOX News reported, though Police would not confirm or release the information, that one witness described the Van with particularity, includig a license plate. (Which even if wrong at the time, that eye-witness information would have been sufficient probably cause)
5) The police, based on all this information, and such information they may have that has not and need not be disclosed, began setting up road blocks and specifically stopping vans that fit the general description. (Of which there were probably thousands)
There is no serious argument to be made, based on these facts and circumstances, that stopping these white vans was without probable cause. NONE.
Now, if we are arguing that the police should not approach those vehicles with multiple automatic weapons drawn, that argument is also specious. If it is stopped for probable cause, it is assumed that if carrying the sniper, the occupant or occupants are armed and dangerous.
This entire thread seems to go forward because someone posted a picture of a man handcuffed on the ground. Of course, we can't seriously believe, nor has there been a single report or complaint, that the police have been handcuffing all drivers of white vans and placing them on the ground. This picture, in fact, tells us nothing. As I speculated earlier, the guy may have had outstanding warrants. He might have been driving on the revoked list and ran to get away. The possibilities are endless. However, the Constitutionalists here assume that the police just dragged this innocent soul out of his van, handcuffed him, and played god because they could. (After all, they didn't have anything else to do last night).
As a conservative, socially and economically, as a former candidate for office, as a pro-gun, pro-carry advocate, I have to say that on occasion, I find the people on the far right here a bit troubling. (I hate to use fa-right because that's what most call me, and these folks are not far right in the conservative political sense, they are far right in the radical anarchist sense.) All of that would be fine, by the way, if someone would just express an opinion based in substance, reason, logic, and the law. Then we can have a serious discussion.
If not, I invite these folks to come down this way and solve this damn thing themselves. If the cops don't know what the hell there doing, and all their efforts are simply a scheme to stamp on the rights of average Americans, then come down and do us a double favor. One, save the average American from these horrible cops you think we have, and two, rid our residents of this killer we know we have. As a bonus, if you really do solve it, there's a $500,000 reward. (That's almost real money).
Perhaps we should some kind of a "Chicks who support the police" ping list to question some of these knee-jerk cop bashers!
Tactics that exhaust resources as quickly as a crack-whore wastes her own, are losers, amigo.
What descriptions? If they had an accurate description, it would be public. If they don't and they make it public, then you have a different problem. You're upset about white vans being stopped, how would you feel about white people with curly black hair being stopped? Would the sketch be probable cause?
2. Authorities should put in place a system where the public can be alerted via radio (Emergency Broadcast System)within minutes that a shooting has occurred at X - be attentive.
They have one its called am and fm radio. There is no need to reinvent that wheel. The networks are standing by breathing heavy and drooling for info to broadcast.
3. Unfortunately, they must mostly rely on a person disrupting the next attempted sniping, or on an acquaintance turning the sniper in.
No, they rely on police work. When a crime is committed the number one priority is to seal the area. Thats what they are doing but you seem to object to it. I don't understand why to tell you the truth.
Let's face it, these roadblocks are really meant to give the appearance the police are "on the case".
The roadblocks are meant to snare the sniper, period. Do you actually propose that the cops do nothing when the reports come in of murdered Americans?
The chances of one resulting in an arrest are nil; the sniper's already prepared for this eventuality.
Pure conjecture on your part. Criminals are rarely caught in the act but they most certainly are apprehended while leaving the scene. You'll have to back up the "nil" claim somehow or other. I don't believe it for an instant. They will catch this guy leaving the scene or they won't catch him.
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