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Beltway Sniper Shootings-FR Commentary-Wednesday, Oct. 16
Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences | October 16, 2002 | Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences

Posted on 10/16/2002 2:06:53 AM PDT by Peach

To avoid multiple vanity threads regarding any news from press conferences, let's keep a live commentary thread going again today.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: banglist; beltway; maryland; shooting; sniper; virginia
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To: Peach
they don't have to go out in a blaze of bullets to spring a trap...
81 posted on 10/16/2002 4:34:30 AM PDT by packrat01
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To: DugwayDuke
the sniper exited the vehicle to take the Home Depot shot.

I read one of these "witness" accounts (sniper exiting vehicle) this morning in the Wash Post.

Actually it is not a witness account, but a hearsay account. A witness told another non-witness bystander at HD, who in turn told the Post.

And that account is completely implausible.

He said the van was pointed westbound and at the end of the parking lane in which the victim was shot. This makes no sense, unless (a) the shooter was actually inside the parking lot (extremely unlikely) or (b) the shooter was parked in the wrong direction on the one-way access road just outside the HD parking lot. As one who has shopped at this HD, I can say with certainty that this latter notion is ridiculous.

Furthermore, hearsay-man said the shooter got out of the van, got behind it, shot, got back in and drove away.

Think it through. The van is pointed westbound. The driver's side door is therefore closest to the victim. In this account, the shooter gets out of the van (on the driver's side which is facing the victim), walks all the way around to the side of the van opposite the victim, takes the shot, and then walks again around the van and enters the driver's seat.

If the van was pointed westbound (and I don't believe that's true), the shooter logically need only open the door, take his shot, and close the door. He would not have to exit the van, and certainly would not need to walk to the side of the van opposite the victim. That makes no logical sense.

If the van was inside the lot and pointed east (this solves the walking-around-the-van problem), he would have been basically stuck, headed directly for the upstairs lot entrance.

So we're back to the shooter being just outside the lot, facing east, sitting on the one-way, eastbound access road. If you've seen the photos of the 2 dozen cadets on their knnes, combing though the grass, that is the access road just in the foreground. And that's also approximately the middle of the HD parking lot, where the victim was shot.

As for the "witness" accounts of the van being stuck in traffic, causing the driver to make a U-turn across the median, these are are equally absurd.

Logically, the van was in the eastbound access road. From there, one cannot get back onto Rt. 50 without hopping a 15-foot grass median between the access road and the (very busy) highway. Not a very discreet exit strategy.

On the other hand, if one drives for 15 seconds to the end of the access road, there are several inconspicuous exit strategies (personally, I believe they made a right and went over to Rt. 7, 200 yards away).

These conflicting and sometimes implausible witness accounts are not very helpful.

82 posted on 10/16/2002 4:35:17 AM PDT by angkor
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To: mewzilla
Could be. Did he have that kind of weapon? If not, I think there was another incident. (Now that I think about it, I may have read it in the Spanish press a few weeks ago while I was in Spain.)

I'm not very knowledgeable about guns, but it stuck in my mind that it was odd to be attempting to smuggle such a weapon into some place when it would certainly have been possible to get a similar one wherever you were going, with much less risk.
83 posted on 10/16/2002 4:35:59 AM PDT by livius
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To: angkor
I agree with you about the confusing reports. I am still very sceptical of the one witness who claims to have seen the guy shoulder the rifle near the road. And then we have another witness who says man walked towards the victim and shot her...then went back to his vehicle and left. I'm not convinced either of them actually saw the shooting.
84 posted on 10/16/2002 4:42:43 AM PDT by Route66
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To: Sacajaweau
-- 5:20 p.m. Wednesday, Oct. 2: Windows shot at Maryland craft store. No one hurt.

-- 6:04 p.m. Wednesday: James D. Martin, 55, of Silver Spring, Md., killed in Maryland grocery store parking lot.

-- 7:41 a.m. Thursday, Oct. 3: James L. "Sonny" Buchanan, 39, of Arlington, Va., killed while cutting grass at Maryland auto dealership.

-- 8:12 a.m. Thursday: Taxi driver Prem Kumar Walekar, 54, of Olney, Md., killed at Maryland gas station.

-- 8:37 a.m. Thursday: Sarah Ramos, 34, of Silver Spring, Md., killed outside Maryland post office.

-- 9:58 a.m. Thursday: Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, 25, of Silver Spring, Md., killed as she vacuumed her van at Maryland gas station.

-- 9:15 p.m. Thursday: Pascal Charlot, 72, of Washington, D.C, killed while standing on a street in the nation's capital.

-- 2:30 p.m. Friday, Oct. 4: 43-year-old woman wounded in craft-store parking lot in Fredericksburg, Va.

-- 8:09 a.m. Monday, Oct. 7: 13-year-old boy wounded as he is dropped off at Bowie, Md., school.

-- 8:15 p.m. Wednesday, Oct. 9: Dean Harold Meyers, 53, of Gaithersburg, Md., shot dead at a gas station near Manassas, Va., about 30 miles west of Washington, D.C.

-- 9:30 a.m. Friday, Oct. 11: Kenneth H. Bridges, 53, shot while pumping gas at Exxon gas station in Massaponax, Va., just south of Fredericksburg on his way back from a business meeting.

-- 9:15 p.m. Monday, Oct. 14: Linda Franklin, 47, of Arlington, Va., was shot in the head and killed as she and her husband loaded packages into their car outside a Home Depot store in Falls Church, Va. (Fairfax County).

85 posted on 10/16/2002 4:45:20 AM PDT by KneelBeforeZod
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To: Route66
On Monday night, there was a very brief Fox News info-crumb that said a witness had reported the shot being taken from inside the van. No one exited the van according to this account.

I heard it once, and never again.

86 posted on 10/16/2002 4:45:53 AM PDT by angkor
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To: TomGuy
I tend to think if it was a terrorist shooting there would be shootings in several cities at the same time.
87 posted on 10/16/2002 4:48:02 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
Not if you're thinking strategically. Also, cells are not necessarily in communication with each other AND there have been major arrests in Lackawanna, Portland, and many locations overseas.

Who's to say there isn't a cell preparing another form of terrorism in Houston, just waiting for the endgame to play out in DC?
88 posted on 10/16/2002 4:50:36 AM PDT by Skywalk
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To: angkor
Thanks - didn't hear that one, but it's yet another conflicting report. I think it's way too soon to make any assumptions based on these reports. The actual shooting may still not have been witnessed.
89 posted on 10/16/2002 4:51:37 AM PDT by Route66
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To: Route66
I agree..confusing.

They should be able to figure out this morning where the shot came from and figure out which witness is correct or useful or absurd.

No witnesses and all of a sudden we have a bunch??

It's the witness that hasn't made headlines that the sniper has to think about.

Sac

90 posted on 10/16/2002 4:53:04 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: aristeides
Could you coordinate an attack like that without radio communications?

Cell phones.

91 posted on 10/16/2002 4:54:29 AM PDT by Aeronaut
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To: Skywalk
Another element militating against terrorist activity is the lack of "splash" involved in sniping. Compare the impact of crashing the airplanes into the buildings with the recent spate of shootings. I am not saying terrorism is impossible in the current shootings just not too likely.
92 posted on 10/16/2002 4:56:46 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS
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To: Aeronaut
Think 2-ways would be the best for the operation from the time the sniper leaves the vehicle and walks to his position. After the hit, the sniper could either use the 2-way or walk a couple of miles to a phone booth.

I'm laughing here thinking about the day we were getting someone else's conversation and visa versa on our radios. One of the "rocket scientists" said "let's change channels"..."use channel three". It took a couple minutes, and the second said..."let's not tell them the channel". We didn't hear them the rest of the day.

Sac

93 posted on 10/16/2002 5:06:49 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau
"They should be able to figure out this morning where the shot came from..."

You are right. At most of the shootings, the victim has been killed instantly and not moved until after police arrive. By now they have a pretty clear idea in each shooting the direction the shot came from.

In some cases, you know just that information alone is enough to either rule in or out whether or not the shooter shot from a parking area, road, green space, or whatever. We have never heard the authorities actually reveal where they think the shot came from in any of the shootings as far as I know. I don't exactly understand why.
94 posted on 10/16/2002 5:07:41 AM PDT by Route66
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To: Peach
What happened in Long Island?
95 posted on 10/16/2002 5:08:11 AM PDT by carton253
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
It seems to me that this is having quite an impact, even outside of its impact of the people of the DC area. It's being covered in the foreign press, for example (where speculation about terrorism is much more open than it is here).
96 posted on 10/16/2002 5:11:45 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius
I don't think it is having the social impact of the aircraft. Other than on this forum the sniping is not being talked about that much in my area. It is mentioned and that is about it. In addition the press promotes hysteria in its reporting in order to sell soap.
97 posted on 10/16/2002 5:16:39 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS
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To: Route66
I'll bet they have commercial garages they are using...using either real or front businesses. Maybe they are using small industrial parks...places where commercial trucks would never get a second look.

Or those "u-store-it" complexes. A lot of those are located near highways and commercial areas. It would be interesting to see if there are u-store-it complexes close to where the attacks took place. It would be simple to have a front person go around and rent a bay in one of several of the complexes, then drive into the closest one in a manner of minutes as soon as the shooting is done.

How else to explain that it seems that no one (neighbors, co-workers, family, etc.) has reported these vehicles? The vehicles are going underground and staying there until shortly before and after the shootings. They're being hidden.

98 posted on 10/16/2002 5:18:36 AM PDT by randita
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To: aristeides
That witness Young said it was Middle Easterners. He's a construction worker. That means he works with Hispanics, and can recognize them.

I hadn't heard that. Interesting.

99 posted on 10/16/2002 5:18:47 AM PDT by Peach
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In case any of you don't have this...

Beltway Sniper Shootings- FR THREAD ARCHIVES

100 posted on 10/16/2002 5:23:02 AM PDT by Freedom2specul8
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