What if an alQaeda Cell is working in teams? (Vanity)

[toddst]

You ever try to make a 100 yard shot with a handgun? Apparently you are ignorant to the use of firearms.

No I'm not ignorant about handguns and yes I have made football field length shots and you don't want to be the target at 100 yards.

I don't believe the shooters in this situation are using handguns, but they could be. Some are chambered for the .223 cartridge and can (in the right hands) hit man-size targets well past 100 yards.

Check some of the other threads on this subject. It's been discussed by some who are definitely NOT ignorant about long-range handgun use.

[Robert_Paulson2]

Thank you for confirming for rivet what I have also seen...

The .223 is pretty popular for shooting matches.

and it may be a rifle... I don't think we really know yet. we know only what we are being told.

I suspect they would not tell us if there were somehow different .223 rounds being tested. They don't want us to panic about a terrorist cell... that is pretty clear.

The special ops military groups are moving into the arena... I suspect we will get some closure on this sooner rather than later.

Would they have a tendency to not tell us it was a sniper group of trained al qaida, at first, even if they knew it was? Looking for your opinion... not a debate.

[KneelBeforeZod]

it is easy to change the 'fingerprint' of a gun if you know how. But then you still have the new 'fingerprint' on your gun. So unless you throw it away (or maybe add a new barrel then throw that out) it doesn't help much.

And it is just as easy for a forensics expert to CONVINCE A JURY (which is the important thing) that this bullet came from this gun because you can see it was altered in this way...

[Rivothead]

That's Rivot

[ASA Vet]

Key word

Now cut that out, you're assuming words mean things.
How can we go off on tangential rants if you insist on verbal comprehension?

[Robert_Paulson2]

sorry... bad spelling today...
Rivothead.

:-)

[Frohickey]

Every firearm leaves it own fingerprint on ever bullet fired thru it. The rifling makes distinct marks in the lead of every round fired. They know it's the same gun.

Only if the bullet is intact.
Only if the barrel/chamber has not been modified through months or years of use.
Only if the barrel/chamber has not been replaced.
Only if the barrel/chamber has not be intentionally modified.
Only if the bullet has not been intentionally modified prior to firing.
Only if the ammunition has not changed substantially.
Only if normal bullets are used, and not discarding sabot bullets.

Fingerprint makes it sound as if its unique, just like DNA. Its possible for multiple barrels to impart the same markings on bullets.

[snooker]

Do we know it is the same rifle, or just same .223 caliber or maybe we don't even know what the police know.

Personally, I think it is one team with access to multiple vehicles. Like from the jobs of one or more of the team members.

IMHO ...
It is time to look at the obvious, Al Queda. First anthrax, now this. Same source, same aim, terrorize people and show the helplessness of the police/government to prevent.

If it is not, then I will be surprised. But wouldn't care a wit, as long as the perps are caught and burned.

snooker

[Rivothead]

The police already confirmed the ballistics.
Most rounds retrieved from a corpse are intact
They wouldn't have confirmed a ballistics report if there were modifications.
Do some peoiple just argue for the sake of arguing?

[talkswowls]

Rivothead,

Be carful who you call an idiot. You can make 100+ yard shots all day long with this handgun, and it comes in .223 straight from the factory.

http://www.tcarms.com/contpistol/index.html

Now I'm not saying that they are using a Contender, just that it is a possibility.

I agree with the more than one person theory.

I also suspect that the firearm being used is not an AR-15, or even a semi-auto. My reason for this is that the police have a pretty good idea what TYPE (more info than just it is a .223) it is from the shell casing as well as the bullet markings. You can tell that kind of thing, or at least eliminate certain possibilities, by the dimensions of the grooves, twist rates, etc. They could match it up to "ruger" or "colt" or aftermarket this and that. They could see if it is a semi-automatic or not by the extractor marks on the casing. The dimentions of the casing after it has expanded.
These cops on the east coast HATE assult rifles. Did you see them lay them all out on the table for the cameras after like the first shooting? They KNOW that it is not a semi-automatic rifle, because if it was, they could not RESIST the chance to tell everyone that it IS a semi-automatic this, or an assult rifle that. Their silence tells me it is a bolt action long rifle, or a single shot handgun, such as the Contender.
But that is just my theory. I have been wrong before.

[Quix]

It's not been a priority for me to examine it that closely.

That idea may well not explain the most data points.

But when I read the idea, I thought--yeah, a group of Moslems MIGHT WELL do that just to try and confuse things and delay the sorting out of the puzzle some.

That's about as far as I went with it.

You certainly are applying reasonable logic and may well be precisely right.

[Rivothead]

I didn't call anyone an idiot. Be careful putting words in peoples mouths.

[sharktrager]

Actually, the police have stated that ballistics shows it is from the same rifle.

If it is al Queda it would make sense there are more than 2 involved, but I would be very surprised if they had more than one shooter. They typically have specific jobs assigned to each person, and they wouldn't need more than one shooter. The only reason to use one rifle for multiple shooters would be to make it look like a single shooter. There's not much benefit to them of that. The idea that there are 2 or 3 shooters doing the exact same thing is much more frightening.

[dark_lord]

Shep Smith on Fox News just reported that an eyewitness reported the shooter as "a man in a blue sweater". Sheesh, don't insult my intelligence. Is this a code word that suggests the shooter is a minority? They're not telling us anything about the person himself.

If they are really professional about it, then the shooter might have a "nylon stocking" over their head, and gloves on. Someone looking over after the shot is taken will see the clothing - but nothing distinguishing about the face, hair color, or hands. Using a different "flesh tone" for the stocking will lead the witness to say the shooter is "white", no he's "beige", no "kinda brown", no "olive skinned", etc.

[betty boop]

Hello Maceman! I think there's reason to think you may be right. This whole series of events has been run like an "operation." I just don't believe we're dealing with your standard thrill killer here. I don't see why we ought to just flatly conclude that there's only one shooter involved. There seems to be more than one truck. So maybe we'll end up learning that the one truly significant common denominator of the several incidents is the .223 Full Metal Jacket round, which thousands of different types of firearms are chambered for, rifles and pistols. You sure don't need an AR-15 to fire it -- or a "sniper" or "assault" rifle. So maybe we're not even talking one firearm here. (Of course, law enforcement is pretty mum WRT the ballistics reports, saying only that a .223 round was involved.)

And it appears the goal of the shooter(s) is not so much to take out his frustrations on strangers, but to paralyze a community by fear -- which is what the terrorist game plan is all about. This may not be "personal"; it may be "political."

Your suspicions may yet prove to be correct. I'm sure we'll find out in due course.

On a side note: Maybe my tin-foil beanie is plugged on too tight; but when I heard about the massive poultry recall by Wampler, I thought that might have a terror connection, also. Listeria can be, after all, a deadly biological agent...and we Americans all have to eat.

[bulldogs]

In order to catch a terriorist you need to think like one. If I were Al queda, I would evolve and change. This would be much more terrifying. Look for a different pattern, if it is Al-queda. Anyway, the purpose of this killer is terror.

[ASA Vet]

Ballistic tests on a bullet recovered from Mrs Franklin's body were a perfect match
to .233 slugs used in the other shootings over the past 13 days.

From this thread, post #1.

[motexva]

You may be right about a two man team, but there is only one two man team and I actually think there is probably only a shooter. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a sniper hitting soft targets like this have very little need for a spotter? The sniper could have staked out these areas months before and noted things like cameras, security gaurd stands, etc.

But I strongly suspect this is one "domestic" terrorist, possibly motivated by fundamentalist islamic impluses but certainly NOT connected to the al Quada group or other international group.

This is why - al Quada is now only interested in suicide attacks. Why? Because dead men tell no tales, so they can't implicate other members of the cell or organizing group. This sniper clearly does not want to get caught.

An al Quada sniper who wanted to create terror in the capital would scale an unsecure structure and open up on milling crowds of tourists and others, killing as many as possible, and also have other weapons with him to shoot it out with the cops when they showed up. (Note - I lived in Fairfax for over a year and worked in DC about half the time each week, and I can think of three or four buildings that fit this description, needless to say, I'm not going to share any of them on this forum.) Perhaps he would be rigged with explosives to detonate when he felt capture was immiment. He wouldn't drive around shooting one person at a time. This type of crime certainly does not fit the al Quada MO. Bali fits the al Quada MO. The attack on the french supertanker fits the al Quasa MO. The beltway sniper does not.

* It would be a great percursor to a larger attack, in terms of softening up the public and diverting law enforcement resources.

But that's not how it works in the capital. There are essentially LIMITLESS resources for security, since they can call out the military far more easily than in other areas of the country. I think all these attacks have done, from an al Quada point of view, is tighten security there and even elsewhere. Preparations for terror attacks are back in the news here in Austin, after months of being off the screens.

* From all accounts, the shooter(s) need not have a lot of training to operate at their current skill levels.

This may or may not be true. I think there is some difference of opinion on this, however, if they were al Quada, they would be highly trained at one of the terror camps in Afghanistan or Iraq.

* The odds of not getting caught appear high, which means that you don't need to recruit suicide bombers. I have read reports that al Qaedas suicide bombers are mostly dim bulbs. Moreover, telling someone they probably won't die HAS to be an easier recruitment pitch.

But the odds are extraordinarily high he will be caught. And he probably will die ultimately, either the cops will kill him or he'll get the death penalty after capture. Either way, the preferred way for al Quada types to go is in a blaze of glory, a suicide bomb or crashing your vehicle into a building full of innocent people. I think it's possible that it's Islam related, however, I feel a more likely rationale for the attacks would be an eco-terrorist or anarchist type, given that they obviously don't want to get caught, and they are essentially targeting only gas stations and chain stores (Limbaugh just mentioned that all the victims have been "model citizen types" which is interesting from my angle as well - "Let's go kill some squares man!" Or it's just a classic psychopath, ie, other famous American sniper killers like Charles Whitman and Lon Horiuchi.

[John_11_25]

A few days ago on Free Republic, one person said that if there were two shooters and one got caught, the other one would go out and shoot someone immediately.

Therefore the Police would have to let the first one go.

So to my point. This guy in Baltimore.

What if he has got himself a team of snipers to start a race war with the Muslims in the US. The snipers are not Muslims, just far right extremists. They have sent things to the Police which show them as Muslims i.e kill the infidels etc. (Theory Only).

But the Police do not want to release it because of the carnage it might create in the US with civilans shooting muslims in the street. This is why they are checking past military records of ex-snipers.

[MickMan51]

Ballistics experts have conclusively linked the shooting to the serial killer who has now murdered nine people and wounded two others since Oct. 2, Fairfax County Police Chief Tom Manger said Tuesday morning.

Tell me more. How can they do this with mere fragments?