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School Board Panel: Ohio Students Should Be Taught Evolution, Controversies That Surround It
Associated Press / ABC ^

Posted on 10/14/2002 4:59:49 PM PDT by RCW2001

The Associated Press

COLUMBUS, Ohio Oct. 14 — A state school board panel Monday recommended that Ohio science classes emphasize both evolution and the debate over its validity.

The committee left it up to individual school districts to decide whether to include in the debate the concept of "intelligent design," which holds that the universe is guided by a higher intelligence.

The guidelines for the science curriculum simply put into writing what many school districts already do. The current guidelines do not even mention evolution.

"What we're essentially saying here is evolution is a very strong theory, and students can learn from it by analyzing evidence as it is accumulated over time," said Tom McClain, a board member and co-chairman of the Ohio Board of Education's academic standards committee.

Conservative groups, some of which had tried and failed to get biblical creation taught in the public schools, had argued that students should learn about intelligent design. But critics of intelligent design said it is creationism in disguise.

On Monday, the committee unanimously forwarded a final draft without the concept in it to the full 19-member board.

Board member Michael Cochran, who had pushed for intelligent design in the standards, said, "The amendment allows teachers and students in Ohio to understand that evolution really is a theory and that there are competing views and different interpretations. This allows them to be discussed."

The Ohio school board will decide Tuesday whether to adopt the new standards or order that they be revised.

On the Net:

Ohio Department of Education: http://www.ode.state.oh.us/



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: crevolist
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1 posted on 10/14/2002 4:59:49 PM PDT by RCW2001
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To: RCW2001
While I like what this looks like on paper, I'm not convinced it will help much. How can you teach intelligent design in a public school that can't even hang the ten commandments on it's walls? I believe this is a nobel effort, but wonder what the fed reaction will be.
2 posted on 10/14/2002 5:11:52 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
Dittoes - Problem: it takes a certain level of intelligence to teach intelligent design (which I support - although, in my mind, it doesn't go far enough.)
3 posted on 10/14/2002 9:47:54 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: RCW2001
This is an encouraging development, but of course, it's only a suggestion from the state board. Districts are still free to indoctrinate students in Darwinian religion, while falsely representing it as "science" and presenting no competing viewpoints. My guess is that this is exactly what most of these districts will do.
4 posted on 10/14/2002 10:16:50 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: DoughtyOne
"How can you teach intelligent design in a public school that can't even hang the ten commandments on it's walls?"

Easily. The 10 Commandments are moral laws, wheras ID makes no reference at all to morality or to the character or intentions of the inferred designer. For all ID knows, the designer may have created the universe as an inside joke. It's far more rigorous than neo-Darwinism and bears almost no resemblance to creationism.

5 posted on 10/14/2002 10:22:02 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: LiteKeeper
Thanks for the comments.
7 posted on 10/14/2002 11:56:32 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Bonaparte
Well, without morality the teaching of ID means nothing to me.  What's the purpsoe of going from one Godless concept to another?  What purpose is there to teaching the ID of man and our universe if the story of God is not connected to it?  The presentation of ID would then be a third concept, not a presentation of creation, the introduction of sin and the story of redemption as accepted by Christians.

Evidently the teaching of ID is the equivelent of rice cake when it comes to educational nutrition.  Fighting the battle to introduce it would be pointless.

Win or lose, the left comes away having once again avoided the moral truths of the ages.  A living God created us in His image.  He set up a test of our own free will.  We made the wrong choice.  Despite this He devised a way to rescue us from the effects of sin.  And by providing His Son as the sacrificial lamb, He did it.  Without these truths included, ID is just empty calories IMO.

8 posted on 10/15/2002 12:11:53 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
This just in -- the Bible is not a science text.

And it's just not realistic to think you can scientifically demonstrate the existence of the God of Abraham. "Scientific creationism" tried to do this and predictably fell on its face. OTOH, ID is rigorously scientific and if given a fair hearing in the schools and the public forum, it will easily displace Darwinism, exposing it for the junk science that it is. Nowhere in ID is the existence of the God of Abraham ruled out. It is left open scientifically as one of the many possible identities of the designer.<-p>Net result -- neo-Darwinism exposed and discredited, rigorous methodology restored to questions of origin, and intelligent designer ascendant. This is progress, even though it may not be the outcome you (or I) might ultimately wish for.

9 posted on 10/15/2002 12:44:41 AM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: Bonaparte
To: DoughtyOne

This just in -- the Bible is not a science text.

If you'll note, there doesn't seem to be a problem with the Koran being studied in our schools.  I doubt there's much of a problem teaching certain aspects of other religious beliefs either, as long as they are not Christian, so I'm not quite as susceptible to this argument as some might be.

And it's just not realistic to think you can scientifically demonstrate the existence of the God of Abraham. "Scientific creationism" tried to do this and predictably fell on its face.

Well, there's the problem.  Teaching it as fact is entirely different than teaching it as another theory.  Our kids should be exposed to different theories.  And that includes the theory of the God of Abraham.  If the God of Abraham could be proven without a doubt, there would no need for faith.  We would know the God of Abraham existed without it.  We can study Stone Hinge.  We can study American Indian mythology.  We can study a lot of things, just so long as the one true thing isn't contemplated.  And I admit it is truth by my standard.  But we don't seem to have any problem at all studying truths by other's standards.

OTOH, ID is rigorously scientific and if given a fair hearing in the schools and the public forum, it will easily displace Darwinism, exposing it for the junk science that it is. Nowhere in ID is the existence of the God of Abraham ruled out. It is left open scientifically as one of the many possible identities of the designer.<-p>Net result -- neo-Darwinism exposed and discredited, rigorous methodology restored to questions of origin, and intelligent designer ascendant. This is progress, even though it may not be the outcome you (or I) might ultimately wish for.

I would settle for neo-Darwinism being debunked.  Darwinism is a fact.  The species do evolve.  But like you, I recognize that there is as little proof of neo-Darwinism as there is of the God of Abraham.  If one concept is taught, both should be.  I feel that we concede too much when we allow neo-Darwinism, the Koran and a multitude of other studies to take place, but relinquish our demands for equal time.

Your comments do make sense, but I differ with you in some regards.

9 posted on 10/15/02 12:44 AM Pacific by Bonaparte

10 posted on 10/15/2002 1:12:31 AM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
The issues you address are certainly valid. But we can't conquer them all in a day. Debunking a dominant theory in science requires first, a clearly superior alternative theory (ID), and second, the dying off of the dominant theory's chief proponents and their disciples. This takes persistence. It is never accomplished overnight. The issue here is actually much larger than theories of origins and evolution. It entails a major shift in scientific paradigm. This is one reason why neo-Darwinists and their allies are fighting so desperately to silence the proponents of ID, to disingenuously tar them with the same brush applied to "scientific creationism," and to exclude them from the scientific dialog. The other reason is, of course, that ID makes atheism and agnosticism impossible positions to hold. Their fear of this cannot be overstated.
11 posted on 10/15/2002 10:43:22 AM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: PatrickHenry; longshadow; ThinkPlease; <1/1,000,000th%; Junior; balrog666; Physicist; ...
Luddites 1
Science Ed. 0
12 posted on 10/15/2002 2:09:06 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro; jennyp; Junior; longshadow; *crevo_list; RadioAstronomer; Scully; Piltdown_Woman; ...
So that everyone will have access to the accumulated "Creationism vs. Evolution" threads which have previously appeared on FreeRepublic, plus links to hundreds of sites with a vast amount of information on this topic, here's Junior's massive work, available for all to review:
The Ultimate Creation vs. Evolution Resource [ver 19].
13 posted on 10/15/2002 5:09:59 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
This just in...
14 posted on 10/15/2002 5:12:52 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: All
Those who think that creationism or Intelligent Design (which is stealth creationism) have anything to offer might read this from Scientific American:
15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense.
15 posted on 10/15/2002 5:23:42 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
Thanks for the ping! I missed the thread from yesterday.
16 posted on 10/15/2002 6:03:49 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: DoughtyOne
How can you teach intelligent design in a public school that can't even hang the ten commandments on it's walls?

My questions is, "How does one "teach" intelligent design at all?"

17 posted on 10/15/2002 6:09:19 PM PDT by stanz
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To: PatrickHenry
Thanks for the ping. Another article to file in my Crevo junk file.
18 posted on 10/15/2002 6:12:16 PM PDT by stanz
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To: DoughtyOne
What purpose is there to teaching the ID of man and our universe if the story of God is not connected to it?

Well, if a God was involved, which God would be taught? There have been quite a few different gods thought up during the course of human history.
19 posted on 10/15/2002 8:27:32 PM PDT by Dimensio
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To: DoughtyOne
"This just in -- the Bible is not a science text."

If you'll note, there doesn't seem to be a problem with the Koran being studied in our schools.


The Koran is being presented as a science text?

And that includes the theory of the God of Abraham.

A theory that includes the God of Abraham, or any god for that matter, is not a scientific theory -- unless you are willing to suggest that the God of Abraham is entirely a part of the natural universe (and as such does not exist outside of the natural universe in any way, shape or form).
20 posted on 10/15/2002 8:30:30 PM PDT by Dimensio
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