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Freeper Reading Club Discussion: "Homage To Catalonia"
Self | October 14, 2002 | PJ-Comix

Posted on 10/14/2002 6:59:29 AM PDT by PJ-Comix

Today we begin discussion of George Orwell's "Homage To Catalonia." I am posting this discussion in News/Activism because of the highly political nature of this book and because many of Orwell's observations apply to today's society.

I enjoyed this book on many levels. Of great interest to me was that the Loyalist side in the Spanish Civil War was fiercely divided. As Orwell has shown in this book, the Marxist POUM group was actually in more danger from the Stalinist Communists than from Franco's Fascists. If you were a member of the POUM in May/June 1937 it almost meant a sure death sentence from the Stalinist aligned Communists. Orwell himself, a member of POUM, narrowly escaped from Spain.

The other interesting facet of Homage To Catalonia was the way the press in general lied and/or misinterpreted completely the events in Spain. The purges by the Stalinists were either covered up or excused by the press in general. Even today, when liberals write about the Spanish Civil War, it is always portrayed in colors of Black and White. On one side were Franco's Fascists (actually Franco was a classic reactionary who only temporarily used the Fascists) and on the other were the noble Loyalists. Of course, little mention of the fact that there was great bloodletting and purges among the Republican side, primarily by the Stalinists (who came to dominate the Republican government side) against the POUM and others. BTW, I did a little research and although the Stalinists also wished to be rid of the Anarchists, for practical reasons they were unable to purge them simply due to the fact that the Anarchists were too numerous.

Well, I have many other observations to make but will do so later in this discussion.


TOPICS: Announcements; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: georgeorwell; spanishcivilwar
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The next book assignment of the Freeper Reading Club is "Invisible Man" by Ralph Ellison due for November 18. This novel, although highly acclaimed, has large sections of it glossed over by liberals because of it's scathing (and funny) observations about the Communist Party U.S.A.. Definitely a very Un-PC novel. You will really enjoy reading Invisible Man not only because of it's great social commentary but because it is also incredibly well written (and funny in a bitter-sweet sort of way).
1 posted on 10/14/2002 6:59:29 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: Bahbah; contessa machiaveli; BADJOE; Mr.Clark; Betty Jane; Orblivion; Non-Sequitur; dixie sass; ...
Post away your observations about Homage To Catalonia. If anybody out there wishes to be placed on the Freeper Reading Club Ping List, let me know and I will add you on.
2 posted on 10/14/2002 7:05:13 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
HTC is an outstanding book. Anyone with an open mind who reads it will develop a healthy skepticism of the Fourth Estate.

BTW, didn't Orwell have problems getting HTC published?

3 posted on 10/14/2002 7:10:11 AM PDT by KoestlersRedFiat
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To: PJ-Comix
Leave me off!! If I want to read lies about the wisdom, loyalty and valor of the commies in Spain, I'll read the New York Times.
4 posted on 10/14/2002 7:14:24 AM PDT by Tacis
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To: PJ-Comix
The best thing about Homage to Catalonia is Orwell's vivid and explicit description of what it's like to be shot in the neck.
5 posted on 10/14/2002 7:18:33 AM PDT by Oschisms
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To: Oschisms
I seem to recall from when I read it in college that the people in Barcelona rioted so much that the cobblestones from the streets were marked so that when various factions built barricades from them they could be easily replaced. These people remind me of the mindless protesters we are seeing today. "Let's riot! What are we rioting over? Who cares! Let's tear up the city!"
6 posted on 10/14/2002 7:26:06 AM PDT by THE Aardvark
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To: Tacis
If I want to read lies about the wisdom, loyalty and valor of the commies in Spain, I'll read the New York Times.

Huh? What book did you read? If you read Homage To Catalonia you would have seen that the Commies (usually the ones who DID NOT fight at the front) were the ones responsible for the imprisonment and execution of many of those fighting on the Republican side. Also Orwell showed how many journalists back then (and also now) covered up the purges and executions by the Communists.

And in Homage To Catalonia I saw many of the ideas that would come out later in Orwell's Animal Farm.

7 posted on 10/14/2002 7:26:19 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
Do I remember correctly that the Anarchists were the junior league of the Libertarians?
8 posted on 10/14/2002 7:44:39 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie
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To: PJ-Comix
Eric Hugh Blair AKA George Orwell, had a wife, and a career, and he didn't really understand the complicated politics surrounding the Spanish Civil War. He believed in liberty, equality,' and 'common decency', so he joined the militia because, "It seemed the only conceivable thing to do."

He suffered the horrors of war, "...It was not bad fun in a way."

He found the experience of being hit by a near-fatal bullet, 'fairly interesting'.

He almost got thrown in jail where one, 'generally stays forever, with or without a trial'.

And yet--as a result, he is left with, "...not less but more belief in the decency of human beings."...Go figure.

My thoughts are that during his experience of war and bonding with his band of brothers, he developed a same sex attraction and went insane.

My hypothesis of his becoming a homosexual, explains his attraction to pain and his faith in the decency of his enemy.....Nevermind.

9 posted on 10/14/2002 8:07:19 AM PDT by shetlan
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To: Brad Cloven
Do I remember correctly that the Anarchists were the junior league of the Libertarians?

Not exactly. The thing to remember about Spain is that they were politically way behind the rest of Europe. It's hard to find political equivalencies witht the U.S.A. from that era (although now that Spain is democratic it is possible). The Anarchist movement in Spain lived on a lot longer in Spain than in the rest of Europe. Probably close to a majority of Spaniards (or more) on the Republican side were Anarchists. They used many of the slogans and forms of leftist revolutionaries but they were definitely different from the Communists. They were also too large of a movement for the communists to purge at that time.

10 posted on 10/14/2002 8:09:53 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: shetlan
My thoughts are that during his experience of war and bonding with his band of brothers, he developed a same sex attraction and went insane.

I've read no evidence anywhere that Orwell went homo. Believe me if he did, the gay rights groups today would be touting that fact.

11 posted on 10/14/2002 8:12:27 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
I could not find this book at the library, but my mother was visiting a college friend in Barcelona when war broke out.
12 posted on 10/14/2002 9:40:29 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: PJ-Comix
Male group bonding has nothing to do with homosexuality. Anthropologists say that the 3 strongest bonds are (in order of importance):

1. Mother-child.

2. Male-group (in hunting, trading, or warring).

3. Male-female.

This is why women "invading" male-groups can be divisive. It gets a class 3 bond going that disrupts the class 2 bond.

13 posted on 10/14/2002 9:48:18 AM PDT by DJtex
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To: DJtex
franco was much aligned, as far as i'm concerned he was a pragmatist and in many ways was somewhat humanitarian. spain was a haven for jewish children who were smuggled over the pyrenees by nuns during WW2. history is very complicated and not everything is picasso's guernica.
14 posted on 10/14/2002 1:51:29 PM PDT by contessa machiaveli
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To: KoestlersRedFiat
BTW, didn't Orwell have problems getting HTC published?

Victor Gollancz, head of the Left Book Club in Britain did'nt care for some of Orwell's conclusions and this lead to a split between them. Gollancz was one of the 30's biggest apologists for Stalin (which is saying something)

15 posted on 10/14/2002 2:02:05 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: PJ-Comix
Spain had peculiar system during the early part of the 20th century where the left and the right alternated in power. The Communists, obviously, weren't enormously strong at that point, so the left were basically what we might call liberals, although very ready to go Communist when the chance came along.

The Anarchists were a wild card. Not only were they unpredictable in their own right, they could be bought very easily. Bosses used to buy them as strike breakers in the early days of unions, and at the same time, the Communists used to buy them to assassinate bosses. In addition, the assassination of political figures (by the left, often through the anarchists) was pretty much a standard feature of Spanish political life in the 20's and on.
16 posted on 10/14/2002 2:39:27 PM PDT by livius
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To: PJ-Comix
add me please....and keep up the good work
17 posted on 10/14/2002 2:45:57 PM PDT by Kwilliams
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To: contessa machiaveli
Maybe on a personal level Franco wasn't all that bad but remember, it was under his leadership that Spain remained the economic basket case of Europe. Franco was basically a reactionary and was happy to keep Spain economically poor as long as that meant preserving Spain as some sort of backward society. Although it kept Spain quaint for the tourists, it was hell on the people who had to suffer through all those years of poor economic times. I would have had more respect for Franco if, after WWII, he decided to retire and turned the country over to a constitutional democracy. Instead the Spaniards had to wait until Franco kicked the bucket.
18 posted on 10/14/2002 3:40:26 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
Bumping the thread. I just got in so once I get settled, I'll give my input and start reading the other replies.
19 posted on 10/14/2002 4:46:45 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: PJ-Comix
Okay, without having read any of the other replies yet, here are my thoughts on "Homage To Catalonia."

From the opening paragraphs, I was immediately captivated by this account of the Spanish Civil War. It was the first time I ever read in depth about this civil war. Being that it occurred as the storm clouds of WW2 were building throughout the rest of Europe, the Spanish Civil War tends to get overlooked by history.

Orwell paints a fascinating picture of the perpetual misery that the average line soldier of this war had to deal with. In short, it was a hellish existence. Freezing your butt off night after night, dealing with body lice (louses), eating your often spoiled food out of greasy pannikans (Spanish term for dish that soldiers carried in the field), having to perform your bodily functions in a steaming trench full of raw sewage and a dozen other discomforts and hardships that no modern soldier would tolerate for very long.

Take the louses for example, here is an excerpt of Orwell describing this vermin:

...I had a big experience of body vermin of various kinds, and for sheer beastliness the louse beats everything I have encountered. Other insects, mosquitoes for instance, make you suffer more, but at least they aren't resident vermin. The human louse somewhat resembles a tiny lobster, and he lives chiefly in your trousers. Short of burning all your clothes there is no known way of getting rid of them. Down the seams of your trousers they lie laying their gleaming white eggs, like tiny grains of rice, which hatch out and breed families of their own at horrible pace...In war all soldiers are lousy...every one of them has lice crawling over his testicles...

I am somewhat in awe that George Orwell (by then he was pretty well known as a successful writer) would give up a comfortable life in England to tolerate these conditions. He really believed in the cause and was willing to put his life on the line for those Spanish revolutionaries.

It was a tragedy what happened to the P.O.U.M. Here were this group of guys who put themselves on the front lines day after day to fight against Franco's fascists, yet their reward back at the home front was to be persecuted. First the P.O.U.M. was declared to be in league with the Fascists, then they were hunted down, jailed and most of them eventually killed. Orwell was lucky to escape the purge.

The book was a little confusing to follow with it's alphabet soup of acronyms - signifying all the different groups that aligned themselves against Franco. But Chapter 5 does a pretty good job sorting everything out. Though I had to go back and re-read it as I got towards the end of the book so that everything would make sense to me.

An excellent book overall. I had only read Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm prior to this and figured those two works were pretty much all that was worth reading from Orwell. Now I am going to check out Orwell's other works, perhaps starting with "Down And Out in Paris and London."

20 posted on 10/14/2002 6:02:48 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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