I THINK THE SNIPERS ARE AL QAEDA

Various Cable Networks ^ | 11 October 2002 | Myself

[LSUfan]

I'm watching this sniper coverage on the cable networks and everyone is so sure that this is a nut of some sort: a gun nut, a military nut, a serial killer, etc.

But we have evidence to indicate that there is more than one. Two nuts? The President of the Marine Scout Sniper Assoc was just on MSNBC and said that he is sure that the shooter isn't alone because he doubts that anyone could stalk, lay-up, take the shot, egress and just drive off in his minivan.

So now they have all the wonderful psychological profilers on...including some 300 lb private detective...and they are all talking about this like these guys are deranged or disturbed. They all refer to "spree" killers and "serial" killers.

Excuse me, but I'd like to see the list of serial killing TEAMS in American history! And I'd like to learn more about the spree killers who take 10 shots, get 10 kills, including one within 50 yards of a state trooper in plain sight and then vanish without a trace.

These guys have training, motivation, and resources and they are operating as a team. The fact that they shot with the cop right there tells me they were totally confident. I believe they plan these like operations, script them, rehearse them, conduct recons and then execute them LIKE OPERATIONS.

Who does that sound like to you?

Why isn't the media even thinking about the Islamic terrorism angle?

Also: this sniper was taking a big chance with daylight attacks in an urban environment, including one with a cop in plain sight. That (to me) implies that he has area security and avenues of egress and methods of egress covered. That's a lot easier to do in a daylight urban scenario if you have a team, as opposed to a lone gunman.

The fact that these attacks occurred just as the tanker was blown up in Yemen also makes me suspicious. Not to mention the 1 year anniversary of Enduring Freedom.

Just talked to a close friend who is with a DC think tank and is also a retired Col. of Marines. He is tuned in to law enforcement in the DC area as well as he is also a director of a company that sells computer equipment designed for tactical and security use. He has personal and professional contacts with law enforcement in the DC area. Also, his wife was two blocks away from one of the shootings when it happened, and in fact when he heard that a woman in her 30s had been killed in that particular spot while vacuuming her vehicle, he was extremely worried, because that fit her description. He couldn't reach her by phone for a good 15 minutes.

In general: it should be remembered that the month of October was the month in which Sheikh Omar Abdel al-Rahman, OBL's favorite mullah, and a top OBL lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, were convicted in connection with the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Also, October was the month in which we started our assault on the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

These aren't some bad militia boys who got into some bad moonshine...these guys aren't shooting up the countryside. They're likely conducting recon, setting up their shots and bugging out to live to do it again. My friend tells me that terrorism is definitely on everyone's lips and minds and that the Feds have involved in this out the ying yang from the get go...BATF, FBI...even Secret Service because of the proximity to DC.

My buddy points out that Al Qaeda said specifically that it would target schools, so this might be the start of something.

GET THIS:

Two of the shots were HEAD SHOTS at a moving target at 150 meters. While a tourso shot at 150 meters is not a terribly hard shot for someone with training, a HEAD SHOT at 150 meters on a moving target would be a virtually impossible shot for a nut with no training. Next time you go to the gun show, take a look at the guy to your left and the guy to your right. Chances are, unless they grew up hunting or were in the military, you'd be pretty safe if they took a shot at you at 150yds while you were moving. Hint: Marines qualify out to the 500 yard line with the M16A2. That is what training will do. I qualified expert and am still an avid shooter today. I shoot a heavy barrel AR15A2 in 5.56mm and a National Match M1A in 7.62 NATO. I am NOT at all confident that I could get a head shot on a moving target at 150 meters. In fact...I would not even try. I would shoot center of mass. What all this indicates is a very highly trained shooter with good gear and most likely a spotter.

And GET THIS as well:

My buddy tells me that the FBI al Qaeda profilers have been predicting some sort of random attack as a contrast to 9-11. Something that sends the message: "no one anywhere is safe from us." al Qaeda has specifically said that they have the right to kill hundreds of thousands of "American children." This fits in with the critique of the al Qaeda training video that came out not long ago.

Here is another coincidence (?): In his Oct 4th column, Bill Gertz of the Washington Times said: "U.S. intelligence agencies received reports this week indicating Islamic terrorists have targeted American schools for attack, intelligence officials said. The reports indicate that the targeting includes plans to attack all levels of educational institutions in the United States, ranging from elementary schools to colleges and universities, said officials familiar with the reports." One of the victims was a 13 year old schoolboy.

Now REALLY GET THIS:

In the public release, law enforecemnt has not mentioned any race or ethnicity of the perps. But the unclassified bulletin that is being circulated by the Feds describes says that one of the local deputies got a description of two "Hispanics" but the feds think the guy just profiled them as Hispanics from law enforcement experience and that the two could easily be Middle Eastern. My buddy did not know if the deputy saw the perps himself or took a description from witnesses. The original vehicle was described as a white delivery van and today the suspect vehicle was a white Chevy Astro Van (but if these guys are pros like everyone thinks, neither vehicle will be showing up again).

A few more interesting insights from my friend:

The killer (or killers) must have felt secure in his surroundings. Most of the killings happened on or near busy main avenues during rush hour.

To say nothing of the fact that the region is crawling with law enforcement of every kind, being so close to the nation's capital.

Obviously it's someone who has murdered before or has been trained and conditioned to kill people. My buddy doubts many first-time killers, to say nothing of social outcasts or sickos, would have the nerve to kill with a single shot, then drive to another location within a half-hour, then kill again with another single shot.

Notably, all the areas of the killings are highly integrated racially. Had the killings been two miles west or south, they would have been in practically all-white or all-black neighborhoods, respectively, so a non-white/non-black killer (i.e., Middle Eastern) would not have been noticed in the areas in question.

Finally, the coincidental timing of these two incidents is another reason to suspect al Qaeda terrorism. Blow up a ship at the same time they're plinking away at innocent civilians...

If they haven't already done so, the cops and Feds need to bring in some guys from the Scout-Sniper School in Quantico to analyze this thing. Most law enforcement snipers don't think like the guys who did these horrible acts. And street cops certainly do not. The best way to get a sniper is with another sniper. The Marine snipers are the best in the world.

[DBtoo]

Oh great. The Angry White Man theory again.

The DC area has a very high percentage of minorities. Whites are in the minority there, and some of the victims were white. It's as if the shooter is trying to cover all ethnicities, ages and both sexes. Of course the powers that be will want to go for the white supremecist angle. Which increases my suspicions that it's a black ops operation. Just wait, after it's all over and done we will be seeing drastic changes concerning our gun laws, for our own safety, of course.

[section9]

I've always thought the sniper was a terrorist. The only reason I can think of that they aren't screaming that info. is to prevent vigilanties from attacking innocent people on the east coast. After 9/11 some morons were out shooting people of Indian (India) descent etc.

Okay, let's assume that they are Al Qaeda.

They're snipers. So they follow certain traditions laid down by guys like Vassily Zeitsev and the Marine Snipers of the Vietnam War.

These guys need to be tracked. Then killed.

Police responders are reactive. That's where I think this is going wrong.

They need to be hunted down.

You can only do that with tracker/sniper teams.

This sounds really bizarro, I know, but you basically have to put the word out in the community that a bunch of Marine sniper teams are coming into town to bag the bad guys.

You can only get a dedicated sniper with another sniper. These guys (or guy) know what they are doing, know concealment and egress, and know how to hit moving targets.

This will continue until the snipers themselves know that they are themselves being hunted down by professional snipers, preferably from the Marine Corps, using those McMillan rifles they love so much.

I don't see any other way to do this than to track them and shoot them. This should be treated as a normal military operation by the Marines (yes, they can be deputized as US Marshals to get in line with Posse Comitatus...), but I'm convinced that this is the way they have to do it.

I get back to the contest between Vassily Zeitsev and Colonel Koenig at Stalingrad in 1942. We will continue to take casualties until we drop the b.s. and start hunting these clowns. If they know they are being hunted, they might start making mistakes. That's what Colonel Koenig did. That's when Zeitsev got him.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[Physicist]

But we have evidence to indicate that there is more than one. Two nuts? The President of the Marine Scout Sniper Assoc was just on MSNBC and said that he is sure that the shooter isn't alone because he doubts that anyone could stalk, lay-up, take the shot, egress and just drive off in his minivan.

Prediction: The shooter is left-handed, and is shooting through the passenger-side window. Stop, aim, shoot & go.

[tonyinv]

Another thing to remember. 9/11 was something that was so obvious we were oblivious to it. It was only the morals of a civil society that stopped us from believing it could happen. Sure we all see it now, some of us even saw it before 9/11 but as a people we thought a hijacking had a specific MO.

Now with this thing, its the same senario. The media and the intellectuals are all going on past experiances. We are thinking in terms of how terrorists are supposed to act. No one to this day has publically claimed responsibility for 9/11. The point of this operation and 9/11 was killing people. By achieving these goals, they eventually me the broader goal.

We have always thought we were safe here at home, they are trying to point out that we are something less than that.

As for the card? I think they're having fun if even they left it.

[El Gato]

Would an Islamic say "I am god" or "I am Allah?"

Neither, it would be blasphimis(sic). Although they might say it to the infidels to throw them off the track. They might also say they where the hand of God/Allah. ("Allah" being the Arabic for "God", rather than the name of their particular God. "There is no god but God, and Mohammed is His Prophet", is how it's translated into English, but the Arabic version that I've heard uses the same word in both places, and the word is "allah".

[swarthyguy]

Bump for War of the Rats by David Robbins and Vasily Zaitsev's bio!

[aj1]

Black <-> White pattern being established?

Next - White?
Today - Black
Wed. - White
Mon. - Black
Friday - White Woman (?)(let me know if she was white)
Thur. - Black (last victim on rampage that day in DC)
Thur. - (initial killing spree with little time to think)

Seems like there is a Black-White pattern of killing being
established (with time to think)after the SPREE killing on Thursday in which he selected targets as quickly as possible.

The initial SPREE killings was made so he could get Media and police attention quickly. Now that he has the attention he can be selective with time and place.

[floriduh voter]

If there's a side door, you crack the door open to fit the barrel of the rifle through it. Then the guy doesn't have to drive and shoot. It's got to be a team.

[69ConvertibleFirebird]

the sniper is hitting all the gas stations in the area...

It could just be an environmental wacko/anti-gun wacko too. He/she is trying to put a stop to filling cars with gas, and, at the same time is getting the "gun control" crowd riled up... Hmmmmm....

[mhking]

The anthrax came from Ft. Detrick Md. and was not an Al Qaeda operation.

And you know this? Tell me, how is it that no one else appears to know this except you?

[Ben Bolt]

This person / people are not snipers . They are shooters .

[DBtoo]

Right, they often say "Praise be to Allah, the most merciful..." and so on, but to say "I am God" would be blasphemous coming from a "devout" muslim.

[Physicist]

Further prediction: he's not in a white van, but he doesn't fire until one passes by. (There's always one around, and if that's what people are expecting to see, that's what they'll focus on.)

[DBtoo]

Good points.

[swarthyguy]

Contrarian viewpoint --

Anything is permissible in the land of war while killing infidels.

Add like jihadi apologists *not you* like to say, the hijackers went to a strip joint, implying they weren't real muslims. But they were, and knew they could 'sin' because they were going to paradise anyway.

[aj1]

Black <-> White pattern being established?

12 Next - White?
11 Today - Black
10 Wed. - White
9 Mon. - Black
8 Friday - White Woman (?)(let me know if she was white)
7 Thur. - Black (last victim on rampage that day in DC)
6 Thur. - White
1-5 Thur. -(initial killing spree with little time to think)

Seems like there is a Black-White pattern of killing being
established (with time to think)after the SPREE killing on Thursday in which he selected targets as quickly as possible.

The initial SPREE killings was made so he could get Media and police attention quickly. Now that he has the attention he can be selective with time and place.

[browardchad]

this s***stain understands enough of American culture to know about the whole mystique that snipers and serial killers possess

Good point. Perhaps he/she/them has, as you suggest, read up on how cops trip up serial killers, or he/she/them has some law enforcement experience. It could also be a case of an American "gun for hire."

[Copernicus]

3) I would like to add that perhaps thought should be given to the majority of the shootings happening around "oil" supplies...gas...hmm...now let's see, who has the oil, and who buys the oil.

I have not had time to read all the threads about this so forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere.

Many of the shooting locations have more "practical" significance than symbolic meaning.

Based on the news reports I have read I offer these conjectures for what they are worth:

The shooter is much closer than most people have been led to believe-possibly as close as fifty yards.

He/she fires from a camouflaged vehicle purpose-built for this task. It may include specially rigged devices such as quick release window or door mechanisms to open or close so the outside appearance is normal for all but the brief time needed for firing purposes.

Contrary to conventional wisdom, open sight lines beyond 100 yards are difficult to find in an urban setting that are not also easily discoverable or crowded to the point of being useless to the shooter. Thus the concentration on well lit areas at off peak hours. The Micheals stores cater to a specific clientele with large open parking lots that are not exceptionally crowded in the morning or early evening. (Two of the most common strike times) "Gas farm" stations and Car Wash facilities offer similiar advantages as they present open sight lines from neighboring parking lots with single individuals confining their activities to a small area which can be monitored for several minutes prior to shooting.

Contrary to the widely published media reports, I also do not believe the weapon of choice in this matter is necessarily a magazine fed bolt action or even auto loading rifle. For the ranges involved and the precision required, any number of single shot rifles or even pistols would be perfectly adequate and possibly even more desirable for the purposes of portability and concealibility.

These are a few of the most significant contradictions that come to mind between the actual events and the interpretations published in the press.

While the notion of Al Qaeda operatives as primary suspects is certainly attractive, a methodical, determined individual of a Unabomber type personality should also not be overlooked.

[Dave S]

This will continue until the snipers themselves know that they are themselves being hunted down by professional snipers, preferably from the Marine Corps, using those McMillan rifles they love so much.

I suggested the same thing on another thread. The perps seem to prefer locations adjacent to major highways, with parks nearby, and gas stations where people come and stand pumping their gas. Bring in Marine snipers and then the next time the perp looks into his scope to target his next victim, he see's a flash of light or puff of smoke in the distance. BANG!! One less perp.

[God-fearer]

Whoever the snipers are they are victims of US foreign policy like we all are, and so their plight deserves to be heard and remunerated by the blindly-conservative tax-payers who give so much dishonor to the nation they _say_ they love so dearly.

And hopefully the next pent-up consevative shot is the one waiting to get the gun that they recently purchased, and would otherwise use in "self-defense" as they are like to say.

Is sarcasm deadly?