'Most muggers are black'

The Evening Standard (London) ^ | 11 October 2002 | Tim Rider

[UKCajun]

The deputy head of the Metropolitan Police has launched an attack on political correctness, saying that society cannot ignore the evidence that most muggers are black.

...Mr Blair pointed to the American example set by the Reverend Jesse Jackson, the former US presidential candidate. "We need a Jesse Jackson," he said.

[aristeides]

I certainly don't know the answers. But I can say this much that not allowing the question to be posed will never make it magically disappear.

And not allowing the question to be posed is a prescription for wrongheaded government policies.

[Tired of Taxes]

IMO its not necessarily racist to categorize people into racial groups. But what is generally objected to is the government bestowing a priveledged status to some groups and not others.

I agree that it's not necessarily racist for individuals to categorize people. But, when the gov't adopts official categories of people, it's either institutionalized racism or, at the very least, a misguided effort (IMO).

I expect, but I don't see how that contradicts the above.

You're right that triumphing individualism and personal accountability doesn't contradict the position that the gov't shouldn't classify people by race for affirmative action and so on. But, then supporting the gov't in classifying people by race for crime statistics is a contradiction. The Left has its own contradictions which I don't need to mention here (everyone knows them). But, I did want to point out that one rather frustrating contradiction on the Right.

I agree that geographical area, socioeconomic class, and age are all factors to be considered. But, "race" is so subjective. It is dependant mainly on the individual's own self-definition or on others to define an individual based on appearances that cannot be altered (skin color and facial features). What I'm saying is that "race" is not purely based on genetic construction. It is more a product of socialization, as far as I can tell.

Let's put it this way: A "national origin" category for immigrants might provide accurate information. A newly-sworn American can tell us the country from which he emigrated. But, terms like "black" and "white" are merely social - not genetic. I remember reading that approx. 75% of "African-Americans" can trace their roots back to Europe, but most probably just check-off the "black" box on the Census.

[wardaddy]

Many of the kids in my neighborhood (median home price = $1.8 million)

Man besides spouting so much liberal excuse crap, you are also a braggart...or a posuer....who knows.

BTW, rich guy, which neighborhood would you prefer to walk around in at night? Your alleged tony environs or the hood?

Nearly all of my ancestors were poor and very few if any used their poverty as an excuse to behave as predators.

Since you're so open-minded, why not take your assumed lily white foolish arse over to the South Bronx at night next time you're in NYC and stroll around. While they are busy stomping your rather naive butt, you can go on and on about how you understand "their poverty makes them do it".

Geez....I do believe you must have been a govt. apartchik...to be sure.

[aristeides]

Thomas Sowell just did a series of columns on IQ and race. He said that black females (at least African-American females) tend to have considerably higher IQ's than their male counterparts. It is certainly possible to imagine cultural explanations for this, but it is also possible to imagine biological ones. I believe I have read that high levels of testosterone reduce intelligence. I should think they also increase aggressiveness.

[tictoc]

Nice post.

[varon]

Well if The Brits need a man like Jesse Jackson we will be most happy to GIVE HIM JESSE JACKSON!! And you know what we will throw in Al Sharpton to boot. Aren't we Americans generous?

If you really feel generous, throw in Johnny Cochran and Louis Farakan ;-)

[andy_card]

Man besides spouting so much liberal excuse crap, you are also a braggart...or a posuer [sic]....who knows.

I'm a liberal? You sir, are a moron.

Nearly all of my ancestors were poor and very few if any used their poverty as an excuse to behave as predators.

I'm sorry, did I say they did?

Since you're so open-minded, why not take your assumed lily white foolish arse over to the South Bronx at night next time you're in NYC and stroll around.

Lol. I used to live on 252nd Street at Riverdale Park. Not the South Bronx, but the Bronx nonetheless. Thank you for playing the class-warfare card, come again.

While they are busy stomping your rather naive butt, you can go on and on about how you understand "their poverty makes them do it".

You make this up as you go along? It is a fact that poorer people typically commit more crimes than rich people. That's hardly an excuse for crime, and it in no way prevents folks with a strong cultural aversion to crime from leading law abiding lives and keeping their neighborhoods safe.

[Old Professer]

If you pull up statistics showing black vs. white crime rates as a way of demonstrating how the relative poverty, lack of educational attainment, frequent idealization of the "gangster" lifestyle, etc. among black Americans raises crime rates, that's one thing. But if you just publish statistics in order to attack folks just on account of their skin color, maybe you've found the wrong forum.

Those who don't work have little if any income; those who drop out of school have little education and few skills; gangsters have lots of money and are quite clever at getting more and are themselves mostly people of color.

Gangsters also go to jail more often than other people and come back on the street ready to start right back in where they left off; maybe a parolee relocation program might short-circuit this cycle. Maybe not.

[wardaddy]

You said poverty was causative of crime as a matter of fact.

I disagree and I have my own observances to back it up.

Riverdale ???...LOL...yeah boy howdy...you are so Bronx saavy.

I lived at 115th and Amsterdam (Colombia Housing )....guess that makes me an expert on Harlem right?

You care to bring up the old race or class card excuses for endemic black crime rates and you better be ready to defend that position on this forum.

Come to think of it, everytime I see your psuedo-Consevatism spouted on this forum, I know immediately I'll more likely than not disagree.

[calenel]

Poverty and lack of education do cause crime rates to rise. But maybe not as signficantly as the presence of a culture that tolerates and even glorifies crime. A large percentage of the US black population suffers from all three traits. I don't think its any secret that poor white (or black or Hispanic or whatever) neighborhoods tend to have more crime than rich white (etc.) neighborhoods. Just because there is a correlation between two things does not indicate a specific cause-and-effect relationship. It can be just as easily argued that high crime rates result in poverty and lack of education, or that all are the result of yet another factor. After all, if you can be successful stealing cars, why go to college in the hopes of landing a good job when you get out? Why bother even finishing high school if you can make a pile selling drugs? Why work for something you can just take at the point of a knife or gun? There are plenty of affluent segments of society where crime, even violent crime, runs rampant, and plenty of places where extremely poor people live peacefully with very low crime rates.

[hinckley buzzard]

You might enjoy a bit more respect here if you begin to realize you have ingested buckets of slime from people who lie to you. Or, I guess you can just continue to enjoy being an ignorant slug.

[e_engineer]

I don't think its any secret that poor white (or black or Hispanic or whatever) neighborhoods tend to have more crime than rich white (etc.) neighborhoods.

Perhaps those who can afford to, move away from the crime, lowering the net wealth of the crime ridden neighborhood? So it would be more correct to say that crime causes poverty (in that neighborhood).

[wardaddy]

ROTFLMAO....

[A CA Guy]

I remember the famous Jesse quote. "I deny the allegations and deny the alligator"

[andy_card]

You said poverty was causative of crime as a matter of fact. I disagree and I have my own observances to back it up.

Look, this isn't so complicated, nor is it even controversial. Rich delinquents simply don't rob folks on the street for $20. Poor delinquents might - depending on a whole bunch of other factors, including education, ambition, and culture. So poverty isn't the be-all and the end-all, but it is a contributing causative factor.

Riverdale ???...LOL...yeah boy howdy...you are so Bronx saavy.

The Bronx is the Bronx. Ok, so there weren't too many bombed-out buildings filled with junkies and perverts in my neck of the woods, but we shared the same Borough President. What can you do?

You care to bring up the old race or class card excuses for endemic black crime rates and you better be ready to defend that position on this forum.

What are you talking about? You're accusing me of bring up race and class cards? Somehow, I missed that. Actually, I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression those cards were being brought out on me.

Come to think of it, everytime I see your psuedo-Consevatism spouted on this forum, I know immediately I'll more likely than not disagree.

That's nice.

[Tired of Taxes]

Government should treat all people alike, regardless of race.

The gov't shouldn't even be classifying people according to "race".

That does not mean that individual conservatives are forbidden from noticing that certain groups have certain tendencies and draw reasonable conclusions from that fact, i.e., intelligence and behavior are largely inherited.

You are free to make your own judgments based on your observations, and so am I. You'll get no argument from me on that point.

Genetics may indeed play an important part in a person's behaviorisms. But, your postings about identical twins have nothing to do with "race". Again, as I stated previously, a person could have only one ancestor from Africa and the rest from Europe. But, if that person "looks black", he/she is classified as "black". And, vice-versa, a biracial person might "look white" and cross over. Genetics has little to do with it. "Black" and "white" are mainly social groups.

[andy_card]

Perhaps those who can afford to, move away from the crime, lowering the net wealth of the crime ridden neighborhood? So it would be more correct to say that crime causes poverty (in that neighborhood).

I think both are the case - poverty brings crime, and crime brings poverty, and the cycle repeats. Neither are necessarily true in every case, but they are found often enough. Many poor neighborhoods are able to go beyond the limits of their poverty and are safe, clean, etc. But just as often, that's not the case.