[SteveH]

did not see this posted elsewhere and seems to contain details that are not in other reports

[M. T. Cicero II]

I really wish that I knew more about this. My current thinking is that it is a type of painting where a clay statue is made and then covered with paint. The cloth is layed over the statue and then made to conform to the statue with felt hammers. This accounts for the image being only on the surface and the almost photographic nature of the image.

I really wish it were the actual shroud.

[Budge]

Flury-Lemberg questioned the relevance of findings by other researchers who discovered pollen and dust traceable to the Middle Ages on the cloth.

"Of course it had such particles on it," she said, "after all, the Shroud was exhibited a great deal in those days."

A great deal was made of the pollen and dust traceable to the middle ages as "proof" the shroud was a hoax. Flury-Lemberg's comment was one that should have been made when this "proof" was announced origionally.

But some people will do anything to destroy Christianity.

[ovrtaxt]

Check out the info here:

http://www.theshroudofturin.com/

[SkyPilot]

Pong

[Illbay]

The Turin Shroud bearing the features of a crucified man may well be the cloth that enveloped the body of Christ, a renowned textile historian told United Press International Tuesday.

Was he there?

[TiaS]

Thanks for the update on this story. I was quite interested back in 1988 when some people from Los Alamos were involved in the carbon dating of the shroud.

[Quix]

MUCH THANKS. I've been skeptical of a lot of the nay-saying for some time. I agree that faith is faith.

But thankfully, our's is a most rational faith--based on a very long list of solid evidence--not mere skyhooks.

In the coming months and years when reality itself appears to be going through topsy-turvey convolutions defying conception, it will become increasingly crucial to hold onto the hand of The Man from Galilee. Truly His Sheep must know His Voice.

So-called proofs may throw all the rocks of hell at the Resurrection and whatever other foundations of our most Holy Faith as they may find purchase to assault. But He is ever faithful to keep that which we have committed unto Him against That Day--including our very essence, our very selves--our eternal personalities and souls. Even our bodies shall miraculously also experience His Resurrection Life. That should be a fascinating process for those eaten, those cremated and those buried at sea.

Forget seat-belts, saints--This E-ticket ride won't need them. Hallelujah!

[Physicist]

Historian Karlheinz Dietz of Wuerzburg University in Germany shares Flury-Lemberg's doubts of the 1988 carbon-dating results claiming that the cloth was made between 1260 and 1290.

In an interview with the Germany daily, Die Welt, he stated, "If you believe that the cloth hails from the Middle Ages then you must also believe that a man looking exactly like Jesus ... was whipped, crowned with thorns, crucified and then placed on linen imported from the Middle East and sprinkled with aloe and myrrh, and that on top of all he had invented monumental photography."

That's it? That's the rebuttal of the radiocarbon dating? "I don't see how this could have been done, therefore it must have been magic, therefore the radiocarbon dating can simply be disregarded."

<shakes head>

And about him saying "looks exactly like Jesus"...we have no idea what Jesus looked like. I'm partial to Caravaggio's powerful version, myself.

[sneakypete]

In an interview with the Germany daily, Die Welt, he stated, "If you believe that the cloth hails from the Middle Ages then you must also believe that a man looking exactly like Jesus ..

"Looking exactly like Jesus",huh? Exactly how does this "unbiased expert" know what Jesus looked like?

[Dustbunny]

Of course the Turin Shroud is the shroud of Christ.

Satan would have us all think it isn't.

[Desdemona]

Ping

[truthandlife]

Your link to the article is no good:

The real link is here:

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20020924-122802-9689r

[truthandlife]

Your link to the article is no good:

The real link is here:

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20020924-122802-9689r

[Desdemona]

She related she discovered identical forms of weaving and high-quality sewing on textiles found at Masada, the ancient fortress in southeastern Israel. They hailed from the year 73 AD.

According to the Berne scholar, other first-century cloths found in the Red Sea region showed weaving patterns similar to those of the Turin Shroud.

"All these things are mosaics that don't prove anything scientifically," she insisted.

No, but the plot thickens....

[dogbyte12]

The problem here is that "relics" in the middle ages, were often bogus. It was estimated that if you combined all the pieces of wood from the cross that different churches claimed to have, you would have enough material to build a house.

The fact that the Shroud of Turin really has no proper authentication, in the form of history is a problem as well. If Mary took the shroud, it was recorded, and it passed from one hand to the next, it would be much easier to be believed that this is the shroud that Jesus was buried in.

It, of course, is all a matter of faith.

[lepton]

If it was that, test results show it must have occurred no later than 36 hours after the dead man's bloody body had been wrapped in this expensive shroud.

A notable claim with nothing to support it, or even describe it. I hate articles like that.

[Physicist]

About contamination and radiocarbon dating

Let's suppose that the Shroud of Turin as it exists now is made up of two components: a shroud dating to 35 A.D. and contaminants of very recent origin. Let's suppose the worst-case scenario, and assume that the contaminants were dumped in just before the dating. The question is, how much contamination would we need to make the Shroud look as if it were made in 1275?

Let's define Ms = mass of Shroud, M1 = original mass, M2 = Mass of contaminants. Thus:

M = M1 + M2

But if we assume a natural C14 concentration of C, and know that the half-life of C14 is 5568 years, we also know that:

C*Ms*(-727/5568) = C*M1*2^(-1967/5568) + C*M2

0.9135*Ms = 0.7828*M1 + M2

Solving for the M1 gives

M1 = 0.3983 Ms, which means that

M2 = 1.51*M1, i.e. that the amount of contaminants in the Shroud outweighs the original Shroud by a factor of one and a half.

If we posit that the contaminants date to the fire of 1532, which the Shroud survived, the contaminants must outweigh the original Shroud by a factor of almost four and a half.

'Nuff said.

[steve-b]

If you believe that the cloth hails from the Middle Ages then you must also believe that a man looking exactly like Jesus

And their baseline for what Jesus actually looked like is...?

[Mat_Helm]

I Believe

[Urbane_Guerilla]

As an agnostic, the shroud intrigues and fascinates me. I have followed this story for many years with an open mind. St Paul said that the literal resurrection of Christ was a necessary element of Christian faith, and that has always seemed to me to be unarguably true.

If in fact Jesus were the Son of God, who rose from the dead, it is necessarily believable that His burial shroud should be divinely preserved and presented to a later age, as a logical proof of the central fact of Christianity. What more stunning evidence than the meticulous scientific study of that fact, in the age of sceptical science?

The implications of the shroud, given the uniqueness of the shroud, deserve respectful attention.