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This Killer Doesn't Fit the Expected Profile
NY Times ^ | 10-08-02 | FOX BUTTERFIELD

Posted on 10/08/2002 5:32:09 AM PDT by Pharmboy

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To: ezoeni
mulitable shots from a rifle could be located quicker.

OK. That sounds reasonable. The sound could be dismissed as a backfire or something. Is that the idea?

81 posted on 10/08/2002 7:18:07 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: js1138
correct bullet but the type of fire arm it came from is unknown.
82 posted on 10/08/2002 7:20:14 AM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: 2banana
Right! I expect to learn that the shooter is a Palestinian who has been trained in sniping.

He knows that a single shot is very difficult to locate by sound and a .223 is very unlikely to let out a puff of smoke unless it is fired close to dirt or dust.

And he knows to pick a variety of targets that will scare hell out of people.

83 posted on 10/08/2002 7:20:52 AM PDT by Chapita
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Because everybody knows that Madelyne Toogood is much more of a threat than a trained Islamic terrorist sniper

BS. They're both vile in their own ways.

The sniper-serial murderer is far more dangerous to society at large--and still on the loose. No one will dispute that.

84 posted on 10/08/2002 7:23:04 AM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: HKgnnr
But dropping someone else's spent casing to throw investigators off is entirely possible.

Hmmmm...

85 posted on 10/08/2002 7:23:13 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Chapita
Does anyone else remember a sniping incident that took place in Israel a few months ago? One Palestininan sniper killed several Israeli soldiers at a checkpoint over a fairly protracted period of time. I'm afraid I can't recall all of the details...can anyone else?
86 posted on 10/08/2002 7:24:18 AM PDT by IGOTMINE
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To: longtermmemmory
"can a bold action rifle be made at home? can the bold actions from the turn of the century do the same job?"

One can buy a modern bolt-action rifle to handle ANY modern ammunition, from .22 long rifle up to .50 caliber machine gun rounds (Barrett).

87 posted on 10/08/2002 7:26:00 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Aquinasfan
that could be it and as well with the supersonic crack it would be hard to locate in general. Have you ever been out hunting or walking in the woods and heard just one shot. You can kinda place the location but not really. It sounds like it .......came from over there someplace
88 posted on 10/08/2002 7:27:47 AM PDT by ezo4
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To: Pharmboy
This operation is precisely one of the operations the al Queda training video depicts--this is exactly what they were training to do. Everything about the shooting is this event: The single shot minimizes risk of detection; no reason to use more that one shot--easily within training perimeters to teach and practice an accurate 400-500 yard shoot.

Probably a bolt action is more accurate that an M-16--makes little difference what kind of weapon was used; point is accuracy. This round which is really the 5.56 NATO round is an accurate round because it has a nice flater trajectory; you don't have to calculate drops or rises on the fly as you pick your target.

The point of this is that yes, maybe this is not a Moslem attack--but when you have the training video depicting this event, with the islamics practicing this for use in the United States; very difficult to conceive of any other motive; the obvious first guess is that this is an enemy attack. Why do the authorities have so much difficulty responding reasonably?

89 posted on 10/08/2002 7:28:47 AM PDT by David
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To: IGOTMINE
Yes I do vaugly remember something about a palistinian sniper. How much training and equiptment does one need to do this evil deed? Do you need the latest scope? Would an old scope be good enough?
90 posted on 10/08/2002 7:29:52 AM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: longtermmemmory
Good points.

If this is a serial killer, I would expect that within a week he will either be caught, or move his operations, or slow down the pace considerably.

I could see him stopping if the heat gets to be too much, but then picking back up in a month after the publicity dies down.

I'm trying to understand the motivation possibilities if this is a serial killer...

Sexual - I would expect his appetite to be satisfied for a little longer at a time, greater intervals between attacks. Also, would expect the victims to be all women, all men, or couples. This would be Berkowitz.

Megolomania - at some point I would expect him to either try to communicate with the public or press, or step up the "terror" level. Targeting the kid would fit, maybe hitting multiple people at a time at a bus stop or something might be next. But still, I would think he would be taking more time to enjoy the panic. This would be the Zodiac in California.

Delusional/Psycotic - I would think that it would be impossible for him to pull off so many without a trace, if he was really wacked out of his head (thought he was killing demons or something). It just shows too much planning. This would be Richard Allen Chase (Vampire Killer).

Hate/cause- This fits the best to me, where he might just be trying to kill as many "something" as possible, but its not obvious what it is, based on the victims. Could hate Americans, consumers, people with big cars that pollute the environment? This would be the Unabomber, or the link I posted above ("22 Caliber Killer from Buffalo).
91 posted on 10/08/2002 7:32:55 AM PDT by NCLou
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To: Pharmboy
Thanks. Somehow I just can't envision some "right wing whacko" running around shooting people at random. I also can't envision a Muslim pulling this off (Although Travis McGee stated in one of his posts that the CIA trained a bunch of Palestinian sniper teams).

Something this cold, calculating, and precise strikes me as a highly paid assassin. Look at the precision of the shots.I know a lot of people have the physical capacity to make the shot if it were a target or a deer. How many people could make that shot looking down the scope at a child or an old man. The sheer confidence to do it in broad daylight in a congested area, especially the last incident in which the cops were on alert. A nut job would crack under the strain. The precision of the attacks. They are done in such a manner as to leave a clear escape route. I think if it is a team it vastly increases the odds that they are ex-military. Whackos don't usually come in pairs. One man could be the shooter while the other is a spotter/driver.

Then again, I may be reading way too many pulp fiction novels.

92 posted on 10/08/2002 7:33:12 AM PDT by MattinNJ
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To: js1138
I thought they found a casing. I've been hearing this for days. Why else would everyone be talking about a .223?

The casing could easily be a plant. Considering how careful this shooter has been otherwise, I'd be inclined to think so.

93 posted on 10/08/2002 7:34:00 AM PDT by Oberon
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To: ezoeni
Like many of you, I have been thinking about this case quite a bit. The lack of information is frustrating. However, I am glad to see these 1600+ threads on FR because it means we have thousands of people who are thinking about it and maybe we can collectively come up with something.

Here are some of my latest thoughts. I don't pretend to be any kind of expert but I feel the need to contribute to the discussion.

I realize that most of what I have written is speculation. My hope is that by posting these thoughts, I might spark an idea in someone else's mind and contribute to the collective knowledge that could lead to the resolution of these crimes.
94 posted on 10/08/2002 7:34:05 AM PDT by Pete
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To: Marysecretary
I think this guy is a terrorist b/c his goal is to destabilize rather than kill. If he wanted to kill there are plenty of better target rich environments he could have picked. Rather, this killing is the means to an end. So far he's been wildly successful. One guy has an entire region nearly to the point of panic and the local/state and fed police stumped. Also, contrary to what most have said I don't think he's as highly trained as you imagine. He certainly has some training but its very narrow. A 100yd killing shot on a human size target isn't hard esp. the ones hes made. Nearly all targets were relatively still and exposed -- not expecting to be shot at.
95 posted on 10/08/2002 7:34:50 AM PDT by 556x45
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To: Kevin Curry
BS. They're both vile in their own ways.

You have learned from Charley Gibson and Diane Sawyere very well. Continue to obey them, and mindlessly react to any images they flash before your eyes.

Too bad, Mrs. Toogood, we're taking your kids

96 posted on 10/08/2002 7:35:11 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: cynicom
hmmmmm
97 posted on 10/08/2002 7:38:01 AM PDT by oceanperch
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To: Pete
nice job on that post
98 posted on 10/08/2002 7:41:32 AM PDT by ezo4
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To: Kevin Curry
The sniper-serial murderer is far more dangerous to society at large...

I would dispute it. In the context of war, a terrorist sniper is a mosquito. If he quits now, people will eventually calm down. If he continues, he will be caught. If he has an agenda other than simply killing, the net will eventually close.

I do no wish to minimize the pain felt by the families and the victim-survivors, but we have had bigger incidents than this.

If it turns out to be an act of war, it will backfire against the perps. Already, I think it will be in people's minds when the Homeland Security Act is voted on.

99 posted on 10/08/2002 7:42:37 AM PDT by js1138
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To: Wonder Warthog; longtermmemmory
"can a bold action rifle be made at home? can the bold actions from the turn of the century do the same job?"

Yes, and yes.

David Marshall "Carbine" Williams developed his prototype for the M1 carbine using hand tools -- mainly a file -- and scrap steel. There are Pakistanis who produce Enfield and Kalashnikov rifles today, using the same techniques.

Some of the finest bolt-action hunting rifles made today are built around the M98 Mauser action. Military Mausers using this action are available on the wholesale market right now for under $100, in original military trim. M98 indicates the year 1898, the year in which Peter Paul Mauser perfected the design.

100 posted on 10/08/2002 7:45:15 AM PDT by Oberon
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