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Professor Rigid on Evolution (must "believe" to get med school rec)
The Lubbock Avalanche Journal ^ | 10/6/02 | Sebastian Kitchen

Posted on 10/06/2002 8:16:21 AM PDT by hispanarepublicana

Professor rigid on evolution </MCC HEAD>

By SEBASTIAN KITCHEN </MCC BYLINE1>

AVALANCHE-JOURNAL </MCC BYLINE2>

On the Net

• Criteria for letters of recommendation: http://www2.tltc.ttu.edu/dini/Personal/ letters.htm

• Michael Dini's Web page:

http://www2.tltc.ttu. edu/dini/

Micah Spradling was OK with learning about evolution in college, but his family drew the line when his belief in the theory became a prerequisite for continuing his education.

Tim Spradling said his son left Texas Tech this semester and enrolled in Lubbock Christian University after en countering the policy of one associate professor in biological sciences.

Professor Michael Dini's Web site states that a student must "truthfully and forthrightly" believe in human evolution to receive a letter of recommendation from him.

"How can someone who does not accept the most important theory in biology expect to properly practice in a field that is so heavily based on biology?" Dini's site reads.

Dini says on the site that it is easy to imagine how physicians who ignore or neglect the "evolutionary origin of humans can make bad clinical decisions."

He declined to speak with The Avalanche-Journal. His response to an e-mail from The A-J said: "This semester, I have 500 students to contend with, and my schedule in no way permits me to participate in such a debate."

A Tech spokeswoman said Chancellor David Smith and other Tech officials also did not want to comment on the story.

At least two Lubbock doctors and a medical ethicist said they have a problem with the criterion, and the ethicist said Dini "could be a real ingrate."

Tim Spradling, who owns The Brace Place, said his son wanted to follow in his footsteps and needed a letter from a biology professor to apply for a program at Southwestern University's medical school.

Spradling is not the only medical professional in Lub bock shocked by Dini's policy. Doctors Patrick Edwards and Gaylon Seay said they learned evolution in college but were never forced to believe it.

"I learned what they taught," Edwards said. "I had to. I wanted to make good grades, but it didn't change my basic beliefs."

Seay said his primary problem is Dini "trying to force someone to pledge allegiance to his way of thinking."

Seay, a Tech graduate who has practiced medicine since 1977, said a large amount of literature exists against the theory.

"He is asking people to compromise their religious be liefs," Seay said. "It is a shame for a professor to use that as a criteria."

Dini's site also states: "So much physical evidence supports" evolution that it can be referred to as fact even if all the details are not known.

"One can deny this evidence only at the risk of calling into question one's understanding of science and of the method of science," Dini states on the Web site.

Edwards said Dini admits in the statement that the details are not all known.

Dini is in a position of authority and "can injure someone's career," and the criteria is the "most prejudice thing I have ever read," Seay said.

"It is appalling," he said.

Both doctors said their beliefs in creationism have never negatively affected their practices, and Seay said he is a more compassionate doctor because of his beliefs.

"I do not believe evolution has anything to do with the ability to make clinical decisions — pro or con," Seay said.

Academic freedom should be extended to students, Edwards said.

"A student may learn about a subject, but that does not mean that everything must be accepted as fact, just because the professor or an incomplete body of evidence says so," Edwards said.

"Skepticism is also a very basic part of scientific study," he said.

The letter of recommendation should not be contingent on Dini's beliefs, Edwards said.

"That would be like Texas Tech telling him he had to be a Christian to teach biology," Edwards said.

Harold Vanderpool, professor in history and philosophy of medicine at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston, said he has a problem with Dini's policy.

"I think this professor could be a real ingrate," Vanderpool said. "I have a problem with a colleague who has enjoyed all the academic freedoms we have, which are extensive, and yet denies that to our students."

Vanderpool, who has served on, advised or chaired committees for the National Institute of Health, the Food and Drug Administration and the Department of Health and Human Services, said the situation would be like a government professor requiring a student to be "sufficiently patriotic" to receive a letter.

"It seems to me that this professor is walking a pretty thin line between the protection of his right to do what he wants to do, his own academic freedom, and a level of discrimination toward a student," he said.

"It is reaching into an area of discrimination. That could be a legal problem. If not, it is a moral problem," Vanderpool said.

Instead of a recommendation resting on character and academic performance, "you've got this ideological litmus test you are using," he said. "To me, that is problematic, if not outright wrong."

William F. May, a medical ethicist who was appointed to President Bush's Council on Bioethics, said he cannot remember establishing a criterion on the question of belief with a student on exams or with letters of recommendation.

"I taught at five institutions and have always felt you should grade papers and offer judgments on the quality of arguments rather than a position on which they arrived."

Professors "enjoy the protection of academic freedom" and Dini "seems to be profoundly ungrateful" for the freedom, Vanderpool said.

He said a teacher cannot be forced to write a letter of recommendation for a student, which he believes is good because the letters are personal and have "to do with the professor's assessment of students' work habits, character, grades, persistence and so on."

A policy such as Dini's needs to be in the written materials and should be stated in front of the class so the student is not surprised by the policy and can drop the class, Vanderpool said.

Dini's site states that an individual who denies the evidence commits malpractice in the method of science because "good scientists would never throw out data that do not conform to their expectations or beliefs."

People throw out information be cause "it seems to contradict his/her cherished beliefs," Dini's site reads. A physician who ignores data cannot remain a physician for long, it states.

Dini's site lists him as an exceptional faculty member at Texas Tech in 1995 and says he was named "Teacher of the Year" in 1998-99 by the Honors College at Texas Tech.

Edwards said he does not see any evidence on Dini's vita that he attended medical school or treated patients.

"Dr. Dini is a nonmedical person trying to impose his ideas on medicine," Edwards said. "There is little in common between teaching biology classes and treating sick people. ... How dare someone who has never treated a sick person purport to impose his feelings about evolution on someone who aspires to treat such people?"

On his Web site, Dini questions how someone who does not believe in the theory of evolution can ask to be recommended into a scientific profession by a professional scientist.

May, who taught at multiple prestigious universities, including Yale, during his 50 years in academia, said he did not want to judge Dini and qualified his statements because he did not know all of the specifics.

He said the doctors may be viewing Dini's policy as a roadblock, but the professor may be warning them in advance of his policy so students are not dismayed later.

"I have never seen it done and am surprised to hear it, but he may find creationist aggressive in the class and does not want to have to cope with that," May said. "He is at least giving people the courtesy of warning them in advance."

The policy seems unusual, May said, but Dini should not be "gang-tackled and punished for his policy."

The criterion may have been viewed as a roadblock for Micah Spradling at Tech, but it opened a door for him at LCU.

Classes at LCU were full, Tim Spradling said, but school officials made room for his son after he showed them Dini's policy.

skitchen@lubbockonline.com 766-8753


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: academia; crevolist; evolution
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To: American in Israel
Evolutionist are nothing but a bunch of "flat earthers" screaming for the status quo, time changes but man is still the same...

bttt

381 posted on 10/08/2002 7:04:10 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: AndrewC
So the study of life has no scientific explanation for the origin of life?

That's not what was said. "Explanation" and "theory" are not synonymous. There are several possibilities. Here is some information on RNA origins if you are interested. Some of those possibilities may legitimately be called hypotheses. I am not aware of any that have yet met the criteria of scientific theory.

382 posted on 10/08/2002 7:28:22 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: Condorman
That's not what was said.

Maybe not directly, but as a consequence of lack of "falsifiability" it is not science. I was making a point. Any mention of the origins of life are not science due to the unfalsifiable nature of the subject.

I had not seen that page, thanks. It is very good in pointing out the possibilities that have been examined. Orgel admits difficulties I pointed out to jennyp long ago.

After years of trying, however, we have been unable to achieve the second step of replication - copying of a complementary strand to yield a duplicate of the first template - without help from protein enzymes. Equally disappointing, we can induce copying of the original template only when we run our experiments with nucleotides having a right-handed configuration. All nucleotides synthesized biologically today are right-handed. Yet on the primitive earth, equal numbers of right- and left-handed nucleotides would have been present. When we put equal numbers of both kinds of nucleotides in our reaction mixtures, copying was inhibited.

All these problems are worrisome, but they do not completely rule out the possibility that RNA was initially synthesized and replicated by relatively uncomplicated processes. Perhaps minerals did indeed catalyze both the synthesis of properly structured nucleotides and their polymerization to a random family of oligonucleotides. Then copying without replication would have produced a pair of complementary strands. If, as Szostak has posited, one of the strands happened to be a ribozyme that could copy its complement and thus duplicate itself, the conditions needed for exponential replication of the two strands would have been established [see illustration on preceding page]. This scenario is certainly very optimistic, but it could be correct

383 posted on 10/08/2002 8:11:28 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
So the study of life has no scientific explanation for the origin of life?

I didn't say that. I said that to my knowledge, there is no theory for the ultimate origin of life. That means that there may be at least one hypothesis regarding life origins that has not reached the level of 'theory' yet (and in fact there are) or that there might even be a theory of which I'm not aware.
384 posted on 10/08/2002 8:25:44 PM PDT by Dimensio
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To: Dark Knight
I love these evolution threads, now you can say creationists may be right in the origins, but have to be wrong afterwards.

And? Life origins are immaterial to evolution. Evolution needs existing life. How that life came into existence isn't part of evolution, thus any consequences of evolution not addressing that particular issue is irrelevant.
385 posted on 10/08/2002 8:29:16 PM PDT by Dimensio
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To: Dimensio
from vaperetro...

Ape-ancestry rejectionism? Tough! That's the way it happened.


386 posted on 10/08/2002 8:30:27 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: AndrewC
You are welcome for the page. I googled on "theory origin life earth" and picked the first page.

Any mention of the origins of life are not science due to the unfalsifiable nature of the subject.

This statement is incorrect. The methods of science are indeed applicable to studying the origins of life.

Hypothesize. Test. Modify. Repeat.

That's how theories are developed. You are mixing terms and criteria with your claim. Any subject, including origin studies, can be investigated scientifically.

387 posted on 10/08/2002 8:35:12 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: Dimensio
Ahh, the origins of life are irrelevent to evolution...

Next, the origins of the species are irrelevent to evolution...

Next title, facts are irrelelevent to the origins of theories...

Can't you see the humor...

DK
388 posted on 10/08/2002 8:35:12 PM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: Dark Knight
Ahh, the origins of life are irrelevent to evolution...

Origin and evolution are certainly related, but they are independent. Only the creationists are disputing this. If you have evidence otherwise, I'd like to see it.

389 posted on 10/08/2002 8:39:04 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: Condorman
I just think it is incredibly funny that hard core evolutionists can say with a straight face that evolution does not cover creation, and then without a second thought say creationists are silly.

Any thing different from you?

DK
PS I am not a creationist. I don't have a dog in this argument.
390 posted on 10/08/2002 8:44:07 PM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: Dark Knight
Actually, the theories that incorporate evolution are meant to account for the origins of species. As such, your comment is meaningless.

You might as well criticize gravitational theory for not addressing the ultimate origins of matter. It's about as meaningful.
391 posted on 10/08/2002 8:44:19 PM PDT by Dimensio
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To: Dark Knight
I just think it is incredibly funny that hard core evolutionists can say with a straight face that evolution does not cover creation, and then without a second thought say creationists are silly.

It could be that I'm not fully up to date. Maybe you could summarize, then, the theory of evolution that also addresses the origin of life?

392 posted on 10/08/2002 8:49:28 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: Condorman
That's how theories are developed. You are mixing terms and criteria with your claim. Any subject, including origin studies, can be investigated scientifically.

No, I am applying what has been applied to ID. If it is not falsifiable, it is not science.

393 posted on 10/08/2002 8:50:15 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Dimensio
I didn't say that.

See post 383

394 posted on 10/08/2002 8:55:46 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
I am applying what has been applied to ID.

No you're not. You're just being difficult. ID is touted as a scientific theory to rival evolution. No one has yet advanced an explanation of the origin of life that rises to the level of scientific theory.

If it is not falsifiable, it is not science.

The correct version of your statement is:

I find it difficult to believe you are ignorant of this distinction.

395 posted on 10/08/2002 8:58:20 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: Condorman
I find it difficult to believe you are ignorant of this distinction.

I made no mention of theory. I am referring to the treatment given ID. If you wish, drop the theory and answer this.

Is ID science?

396 posted on 10/08/2002 9:01:55 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Dimensio
My cat loves to prove gravity to me. Oddly she has ignored the "theory of Evolution". She much prefers to be petted and attended to. If you are saying gravity is equal to evolution have at it. One data point (goatsbeard) vs. everyday experience.

So when you build a bridge, which evolutionary concept comes into play? When a doctor says, you may die if you don't do this? What is the evolutionary stance on it? If you can say anything rational at this query, I can give you a clue. Been there. Done that. Evolution is not pathway to health. Doctors have to have a better path. Maybe replicable science, or other methods. But all in all the final question is for you:

Are you willing to bet your total existance on the truth of evolution. Or do you want a doctor to treat you, on the best evidence?

I can see dogma addicts a mile away, let me guess the rationalization...no who cares!


DK
397 posted on 10/08/2002 9:03:34 PM PDT by Dark Knight
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To: BMCDA
Thank you for your post!

But observeations of how external influences (like physical damage or certain chemical reactions) on our brains affect our minds point to this conclusion.

Conversely, there is no Medical Explanation for near death experiences or the power of prayer. Here are more articles on the subject:

Soul-searching doctors find life after death
Scientists find biological reality behind religious experience
Doctors increasingly find introducing prayer helps calm patients and speeds recovery
The healing power of prayer.
There is power in prayer

Lurkers might enjoy this thread with includes an interesting debate on miracles: The Unraveling of Scientific Materialism


398 posted on 10/08/2002 9:06:51 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: jennyp; American in Israel
Y'all might find this article interesting concerning frogs and chimpanzees and DNA: What It Really Means To Be 99% Chimpanzee


399 posted on 10/08/2002 9:11:24 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dark Knight
She much prefers to be petted and attended to.

What has this to do with evolution?

So when you build a bridge, which evolutionary concept comes into play?

To my knowledge, none. I'm not aware of any engineering skills that are needed for bridge building that require a fundamental understanding of evolution. I'm also not aware of any enginnering skills that require a fundamental understanding of the life cycle of a star. What is your point, or do you just enjoy babbling?
400 posted on 10/08/2002 9:11:33 PM PDT by Dimensio
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