Professor Rigid on Evolution (must "believe" to get med school rec)

The Lubbock Avalanche Journal ^ | 10/6/02 | Sebastian Kitchen

[hispanarepublicana]

Professor rigid on evolution </MCC HEAD>

By SEBASTIAN KITCHEN </MCC BYLINE1>

AVALANCHE-JOURNAL </MCC BYLINE2>

On the Net

• Criteria for letters of recommendation: http://www2.tltc.ttu.edu/dini/Personal/ letters.htm

• Michael Dini's Web page:

http://www2.tltc.ttu. edu/dini/

Micah Spradling was OK with learning about evolution in college, but his family drew the line when his belief in the theory became a prerequisite for continuing his education.

Tim Spradling said his son left Texas Tech this semester and enrolled in Lubbock Christian University after en countering the policy of one associate professor in biological sciences.

Professor Michael Dini's Web site states that a student must "truthfully and forthrightly" believe in human evolution to receive a letter of recommendation from him.

"How can someone who does not accept the most important theory in biology expect to properly practice in a field that is so heavily based on biology?" Dini's site reads.

Dini says on the site that it is easy to imagine how physicians who ignore or neglect the "evolutionary origin of humans can make bad clinical decisions."

He declined to speak with The Avalanche-Journal. His response to an e-mail from The A-J said: "This semester, I have 500 students to contend with, and my schedule in no way permits me to participate in such a debate."

A Tech spokeswoman said Chancellor David Smith and other Tech officials also did not want to comment on the story.

At least two Lubbock doctors and a medical ethicist said they have a problem with the criterion, and the ethicist said Dini "could be a real ingrate."

Tim Spradling, who owns The Brace Place, said his son wanted to follow in his footsteps and needed a letter from a biology professor to apply for a program at Southwestern University's medical school.

Spradling is not the only medical professional in Lub bock shocked by Dini's policy. Doctors Patrick Edwards and Gaylon Seay said they learned evolution in college but were never forced to believe it.

"I learned what they taught," Edwards said. "I had to. I wanted to make good grades, but it didn't change my basic beliefs."

Seay said his primary problem is Dini "trying to force someone to pledge allegiance to his way of thinking."

Seay, a Tech graduate who has practiced medicine since 1977, said a large amount of literature exists against the theory.

"He is asking people to compromise their religious be liefs," Seay said. "It is a shame for a professor to use that as a criteria."

Dini's site also states: "So much physical evidence supports" evolution that it can be referred to as fact even if all the details are not known.

"One can deny this evidence only at the risk of calling into question one's understanding of science and of the method of science," Dini states on the Web site.

Edwards said Dini admits in the statement that the details are not all known.

Dini is in a position of authority and "can injure someone's career," and the criteria is the "most prejudice thing I have ever read," Seay said.

"It is appalling," he said.

Both doctors said their beliefs in creationism have never negatively affected their practices, and Seay said he is a more compassionate doctor because of his beliefs.

"I do not believe evolution has anything to do with the ability to make clinical decisions — pro or con," Seay said.

Academic freedom should be extended to students, Edwards said.

"A student may learn about a subject, but that does not mean that everything must be accepted as fact, just because the professor or an incomplete body of evidence says so," Edwards said.

"Skepticism is also a very basic part of scientific study," he said.

The letter of recommendation should not be contingent on Dini's beliefs, Edwards said.

"That would be like Texas Tech telling him he had to be a Christian to teach biology," Edwards said.

Harold Vanderpool, professor in history and philosophy of medicine at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston, said he has a problem with Dini's policy.

"I think this professor could be a real ingrate," Vanderpool said. "I have a problem with a colleague who has enjoyed all the academic freedoms we have, which are extensive, and yet denies that to our students."

Vanderpool, who has served on, advised or chaired committees for the National Institute of Health, the Food and Drug Administration and the Department of Health and Human Services, said the situation would be like a government professor requiring a student to be "sufficiently patriotic" to receive a letter.

"It seems to me that this professor is walking a pretty thin line between the protection of his right to do what he wants to do, his own academic freedom, and a level of discrimination toward a student," he said.

"It is reaching into an area of discrimination. That could be a legal problem. If not, it is a moral problem," Vanderpool said.

Instead of a recommendation resting on character and academic performance, "you've got this ideological litmus test you are using," he said. "To me, that is problematic, if not outright wrong."

William F. May, a medical ethicist who was appointed to President Bush's Council on Bioethics, said he cannot remember establishing a criterion on the question of belief with a student on exams or with letters of recommendation.

"I taught at five institutions and have always felt you should grade papers and offer judgments on the quality of arguments rather than a position on which they arrived."

Professors "enjoy the protection of academic freedom" and Dini "seems to be profoundly ungrateful" for the freedom, Vanderpool said.

He said a teacher cannot be forced to write a letter of recommendation for a student, which he believes is good because the letters are personal and have "to do with the professor's assessment of students' work habits, character, grades, persistence and so on."

A policy such as Dini's needs to be in the written materials and should be stated in front of the class so the student is not surprised by the policy and can drop the class, Vanderpool said.

Dini's site states that an individual who denies the evidence commits malpractice in the method of science because "good scientists would never throw out data that do not conform to their expectations or beliefs."

People throw out information be cause "it seems to contradict his/her cherished beliefs," Dini's site reads. A physician who ignores data cannot remain a physician for long, it states.

Dini's site lists him as an exceptional faculty member at Texas Tech in 1995 and says he was named "Teacher of the Year" in 1998-99 by the Honors College at Texas Tech.

Edwards said he does not see any evidence on Dini's vita that he attended medical school or treated patients.

"Dr. Dini is a nonmedical person trying to impose his ideas on medicine," Edwards said. "There is little in common between teaching biology classes and treating sick people. ... How dare someone who has never treated a sick person purport to impose his feelings about evolution on someone who aspires to treat such people?"

On his Web site, Dini questions how someone who does not believe in the theory of evolution can ask to be recommended into a scientific profession by a professional scientist.

May, who taught at multiple prestigious universities, including Yale, during his 50 years in academia, said he did not want to judge Dini and qualified his statements because he did not know all of the specifics.

He said the doctors may be viewing Dini's policy as a roadblock, but the professor may be warning them in advance of his policy so students are not dismayed later.

"I have never seen it done and am surprised to hear it, but he may find creationist aggressive in the class and does not want to have to cope with that," May said. "He is at least giving people the courtesy of warning them in advance."

The policy seems unusual, May said, but Dini should not be "gang-tackled and punished for his policy."

The criterion may have been viewed as a roadblock for Micah Spradling at Tech, but it opened a door for him at LCU.

Classes at LCU were full, Tim Spradling said, but school officials made room for his son after he showed them Dini's policy.

skitchen@lubbockonline.com 766-8753

[Dimensio]

Since evolution as a mode of origin (as distinct from one of adaptive radiation), simply does not work in our physical univers, invoking the necessity of outside intervention is a reasonable scientific hypothesis.

Why doesn't evolution work as a mode of origin for the species (mind you, no intelligent scientist claims that it is a mode of origin for life itself, since evolution does not deal with life origins).

[BMCDA]

But this is precisely what Pinker believes -- that the mind is, indeed, an epiphenomenon of matter, to such an extent that "brain" and "mind" are effectively synonymous terms with him.

But observeations of how external influences (like physical damage or certain chemical reactions) on our brains affect our minds point to this conclusion.

[Dimensio]

I'm just assuming you were born without an appendix.

Actually, it was explained to me by a creationist that the appendix has an immunity function. True, that function only applies to the appendix itself and doesn't provide a benefit to other parts of the body, but he didn't seem to think that his example was self-defeating.

[maxwell]

To be a competant Pyysician one must first be a scientist.

[snortle] Did you ever take the MCAT? (I did, once...) Do you know how much physics is required in an MD's education? Bum-squat. There are a$$loads of doctors running around out there who don't know the difference between an E field, a B field and their a$$ in the ground. I know because I've taught premeds. Bunch a grimynosed grade grungers...

Well back to the question, do I think Dini or Dino or whatshismug is right in requiring adherence to a prescribed set of beliefs: NO. Doctors don't need to be scientists or anything-- they're body technicians with an Rx pad. They don't need to have higher understanding of scientific concepts or theories or whathaveyou. Leave that to the big guns who did more than memorize cranial arteries and the Kreb cycle in college...

[VadeRetro]

My mother had a scare, lately, too. A spot on her lungs turned out to be enlarged blood vessels, maybe a relic of surgery she had 5 years ago.

Not to be a scoffer, but she's as agnostic as I am. Some alarms are false. Then you die.

[AndrewC]

Would that be the same article AndrewC posted in 204? Andrew's comments in 241 give that impression. If it is the same, I find it a little weird AndrewC would post the article if it didn't bolster his position on this issue.

It is precisely the same article. You can find the article at http://www.acad.carleton.edu/curricular/BIOL/classes/bio124/pdfs/whale.pdf. Unfortunately, Sciam is evidently not truly interested in "free" discourse, in more ways than one.

By comparing this diagram with the previously held relationship you can understand the “elephant” in the living room problem being ignored. Where does the pakicetus fit into the tree? As to the Mesonychus being included, from the Sciam article---

Whether the fossil record can support the hippopotamid hypothesis, however, remains to be seen. A fourth scenario, denoted here as the new mesonychid hypothesis, proposes that mesonychids could still be the whale’s closest kin if they, too, were included in the artiodactyl order, instead of the extinct order Condylarthra, in which they currently reside. If so, they would have to have lost the ankle traits that characterize all known artiodactyls. —K.W.

Indeed, then father would become son and the son the father, for the pakicetus has the ankle, or so the bone-crushers say.

[Condorman]

I can think of several to whom that description applies.

Ya know, talking about your side like that won't win you any friends. :-)

Now hang on just a minute! I'll grant you there are some pretty snarly evos. Usually Vade. In the mornings. Just before coffee time. :^P

But seriously, I can't think of any of the usual gang of evo posters I'd call dishonest. I can think of several on the other side of the fence I'd label as such. Even with coffee.

And in conclusion: I know you are, but what am I?

[Varda]

bump for later

[whattajoke]

Man, the creationists never cease to amaze me. One guy believes UFO's are satans attack pods, one guy thinks his leg was lengthened by some magical kid allowing him to walk around finding divinely placed gold in the Grand Canyon, and our favorite Blue Guy consistently posts that all science of the last 150 refutes evolution.

Sheesh, no wonder Vade, PH, Physicist, Balrog, myself and others end up angry with you people. One thing is for certain: your faith is as solid as a rock.

But I wonder how solid it is when, say, you are having some cancer problems... I know that I would get my butt (which of course had an embryonic vestigial tail while in my mom's womb) into my car (which runs on petroleum products which are sought out by geologists and hydrologists using all the latest science) to my doctor (who got her PhD from an accredited University) to get tested (using gold mined by geologists using all the latest science http://www.goldinstitute.org/uses/medicine.html#RESEARCH), and then get the necessary treatment which has been refined over the years by scientific researchers using DNA studies and countless other evolution related fields. And maybe I'll take some antibiotics (evolution before our very eyes!) just in case.

Of course, AmericanInIsrael will go to the Grand Canyon to be healed by some kid and may find some divine gold while he's at it. Quix will sit around and pray because those stinkin' socialist marxist humanist evil scientists don't know nothin'(careful to avoid the 9 ET races and their UFO's!. And Gore will just just pray and end up feeling blue. (rimshot).


I'll take my way, thanks.

[VadeRetro]

In the mornings. Just before coffee time. :^P

It's my thyroid. I'm a kindly old guy, really.

[Aside] Guards! Off with his head!

[VadeRetro]

One thing is for certain: your faith is as solid as a rock.

Heads of Gibraltar.

[VadeRetro]

Man, the creationists never cease to amaze me. One guy believes UFO's are satans attack pods, one guy thinks his leg was lengthened by some magical kid allowing him to walk around finding divinely placed gold in the Grand Canyon, and our favorite Blue Guy consistently posts that all science of the last 150 refutes evolution.

Might as well mention that the guy who believed in psychic parrots and Earth orbiting Saturn has been banned twice now.

[templar]

In future posts you should be more explanitory. A single word can be misinterpreted as anything.

I accept your criticism. I will take your advice in the future.

[Gritty]

Please get hold of a dictionary and read the complete definition of the word Theory... It is a Theory--a body of study...

Rather than trying to make your personal definition of the word "theory" dance on the head of your particularly favorite pin, here is a working dictionary definition;

Main Entry: the·o·ry
Pronunciation: 'thE-&-rE, 'thi(-&)r-E
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
Etymology: Late Latin theoria, from Greek theOria, from theOrein
Date: 1592
1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2 : abstract thought : SPECULATION
3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory>
4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances -- often used in the phrase in theory <in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all>
5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <wave theory of light>
6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : CONJECTURE c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations>
synonym see HYPOTHESIS

Plenty of room there to call this "theory".

Additionally, there are over 99,400 refences on Google alone which refer to the "theory of evolution". If that doesn't represent a large body of diverse thought playing with the word's definition, I don't know what does.

Do you doubt the existence of atoms because there is a field called Atomic Theory?

Not at all. But, thanks for chucking up that red herring, anyway.

However, I do dispute the assertion the "theory of evolution" comprises nothing but unshakeable facts because some people say it does while they assert it is something more than a working theory, much less adequately explaining Origins scientifically and in a trustworthy and true manner.

[Quix]

What a lovely, creative rant.

[Dimensio]

gore3000's contention seems to be that his personal strawman of evolution is false, therefore evolution is false. Also, Darwin advocated eugenics (his 'proof' is an out-of-context quote from Darwin and even without the proper context it is a stretch to interpret it as advocacy of eugenics). As such, arguing facts is of no use because gore3000 isn't interested in facts. He's interested in making up what he needs and taking quotes (including those of other FReepers, for which I have documentation) out of context.

[Quix]

BTW I don't assert that I *KNOW* much in all the above. I do assert that the gov has some UFO related craft that they reverse engineered and/or were taught how to build by authentic ET's. I personally BELIEVE that the more publicized ET types are in cahoots with the globalists and satan. I don't think the latter takes a rocket scientist to deduce or infer.

[Rytwyng]

...violations of Shannon Entropy (informational theory.)

This just doesn't make any sense. Why do imperfect self-replicators violate Shannon Entropy?

Imperfect self replicators can't create meaningful code in more than one or rarely two step iterations. Sudden appearance of coordinated traits is probabilistically impossible. Think of a computer program, that's copied over and over: the program might get a typo in replication (which may kill it, or disable it, or may occasionally make a small functional change), but large coordinated sections of functional new code need to be intelligently written. Even the simplest computer viruses need to be created by pranksters, they don't originate at random by mutation of other code.

Darwin himself admitted that if it were established that some complex structure could no originate step-by-step, evolution would utterly break down. The sudden appearance of whole new orders in the fossil record (eg, the Cambrian explosion) cannot be accounted for evolutionarily.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Tim Spradling said his son left Texas Tech this semester and enrolled in Lubbock Christian University after en countering the policy of one associate professor in biological sciences.

This story looks fake. Since when do Associate Professors set policy?