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1 posted on 10/03/2002 8:14:29 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: thinden
It's just you and me thinden. This thread won't go very far, unfortunately.
2 posted on 10/03/2002 8:25:25 AM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: aculeus
At one time, there were links posted here to very early radio reports made immediately after the bombing. The links seem to have dried up. They provided some very different, CONFLICTING, eyewitness testimony as to what was actually being seen and heard at the time of the bombing. And it was VERY COMPELLING information.

Anyone have any clue as to the where-abouts of those old audio links????????? I believe one of them was Jayna Davis' report!
3 posted on 10/03/2002 8:29:31 AM PDT by soozla
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To: aculeus
It happened on Klinton's watch - it makes perfect sense that he would try to blame home-grown terrorists and try to imply a right-wing connection while burying the truth. If the truth were known, he might have had to actually do something about the Iraquis.
6 posted on 10/03/2002 8:35:14 AM PDT by austingirl
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To: aculeus
BUMP
8 posted on 10/03/2002 8:35:48 AM PDT by RippleFire
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To: aculeus
Here's more, from from an interview with Jayna Davis's lawyer, David Shippers. I'm not a conspiracy guy either, and to tell the truth, I don't yet know what to think, although David Schippers has always received respect on FR. (source: http://www.ileagles.net/schippers.htm.)
------
On September 29, 2001, Chicago attorney David Schippers confirmed the following article’s information to Eagle Forum of Illinois’ State President, Fran Eaton. David Schippers is most well-known as the Chief Counsel for the House Judiciary Committee on Impeachment. He authored the important book on the Clinton impeachment, "Sell Out."

The conversation went as follows:

Eaton: Mr. Schippers, I have a few questions for you about the recent events in our nation. I want to dispel urban legends, and would like to confirm fact as you know it on this matter.

Schippers: I’ll be happy to help you in any way I can.

Eaton: Mr. Schippers, is it true that you are now representing the former television reporter Jayna Davis from Oklahoma City as one of your clients?

Schippers: That is true.

Eaton: Is it true that Jayna Davis knows of an accomplice in the Oklahoma City bombing that had Mid-East connections, but who was covered up during the McVeigh trial?

Schippers: Mrs. Davis not only knows of the accomplice, she has a sketch of him, knows his name, and has interviewed numerous people who shared eye witness accounts of "John Doe 2" either with Tim McVeigh or leaving the Murrah Building area on the day of the bombing.

Eaton: Is it your suspicion that Bin Laden was involved in the Oklahoma City bombing by financing or some other way?

Schippers: There is strong evidence that makes me believe that is so.

Eaton: Is it also your suspicion that Bin Laden was involved in the downing of Flight 800 in New York?

Schippers: There is strong evidence that makes me believe that is true as well.As a matter of fact, high levels of intelligence have leaked that Flight 800 exploded because of a letter bomb that was on board the plane that day.

Eaton: It is my understanding that after reading Jayna Davis evidence that you were so convinced of looming danger on our nation’s security that you attempted to notify the Department of Justice about another attack, this time on the financial district in south Manhattan?

Schippers: Five weeks before the September 11 tragedy, I did my best to get a hold of Attorney General John Ashcroft with my concerns. The best that I could do was get in touch with an underling in that office who told me that all investigations start out at lower levels such as his. Fifteen minutes before the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, Jayna Davis got a phone call. On the other end of the line, a voice with a Mid-Eastern accent told her, ‘Turn on your TV.’ She turned it on, and witnessed what the world saw - the World Trade Center burning and shortly thereafter, a second plane flying directly into the second tower.

Eaton: Why is this all being kept quiet?

Schippers: Believe me, I’m just about ready to let the lid off of this . . .
10 posted on 10/03/2002 8:47:31 AM PDT by cloud8
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To: aculeus
One more thing. That motel where McVeigh, Nichols and Al-Hussaini were seen together was later visited (pre-9/11) by Atta, Zacharias Moussaouy and Marwan Al-Shehi.

This is enough to start a full fledged investigation IMHO.

15 posted on 10/03/2002 9:08:51 AM PDT by VRW Conspirator
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To: aculeus
Thanks for posting this.I watched TV the day of the OK bombing all day long.I was in Chicago at the time. Several times they said that federal agents were watching the Chicago airports for a German National suspected of being involved with the bombings.

I also heard broadcasts from Oklahoma City news and mention was made of mid-eastern involvement and connections.That first day was probably the last day we heard pretty honest accounts of what was happening in the mainstream media.

Given that I had always believed that Clinton and Gore were commie,pinko,knee-jerk liberal,deceitful,duplicitous,lying,diabolical jack-a--es,I was not surprised at the subsequent cover-up and disinformation campaign.However,I was surprised and disappointed when Bush and Ashcroft with the opportunity afforded by the pending execution of Tim McVeigh seemed to also fail in the pursuit of truth.

16 posted on 10/03/2002 9:11:14 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: aculeus
Gee... do ya think the mainstream press is finally going to do something with this??? Nah.

None of this is new. We here at FR have known this stuff for years... we followed many of the leads and posted them here as they came up.

What did we get for our trouble? We got called "Tin Foil Hat", "Missile Hugger" and many other epithets far worse... all instigated and orchestrated by a few dis-information artists.
17 posted on 10/03/2002 9:12:36 AM PDT by Swordmaker
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To: glorygirl; madfly
PING!
21 posted on 10/03/2002 9:33:23 AM PDT by TigersEye
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To: aculeus

An Essay on Hypocrisy
By Timothy McVeigh
Reprinted with permission from Media Bypass.

Parthenocarpy is interested in any existing or future rebuttals of this essay.
Please contact us here to contribute.


Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc. Editor's note: Timothy McVeigh, sentenced to death for his role in the April 19, 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City, penned the following essay, dated "March 1998," from his cell in the administrative maximum section of the federal prison in Florence, Colo. In a preface, McVeigh wrote "I have chosen Media Bypass as a possible forum for this piece because, frankly, I realize that it is quite provocative -- and I rather doubt that any mainstream media would touch it. [Note that although the enclosed is very provocative, it was written to provoke thought -- and was not written with malevolent intent.]"

McVeigh appologized for the essay being handwritten, but noted his "current (unique) environment does not provide access to a typewriter, a word processor or a copier. (hell, I'm lucky they let me have a pen!), so I hope you understand why this is being submitted handwritten -- and I hope you can overcome this shortcoming."

McVeigh, whose interview with Media Bypass [February 1996] was picked up and dissected by the New York Times and major media outlets across the nation, also expressed concerns that reporting subsequent to this essay might be "printed out of context... but at least the original can be accurate."

A decorated U.S. Army veteran of the Persian Gulf War, McVeigh hereby offers his contribution to the debate over U.S. policy toward Iraq, a policy that McVeigh says is marked by a "deep hypocrisy."


The administration has said that Iraq has no right to stockpile chemical or biological weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") -- mainly because they have used them in the past.

Well, if that's the standard by which these matters are decided, then the U.Sl is the nation that set the precedent. The U.S. has stockpiled these same weapons (and more) for over 40 years. The U.S. claims that this was done for deterent purposes during the "Cold War" with the Soviet Union. Why, then is it invalid for Iraq to claim the same reason (deterence) -- with respect to Iraq's (real) war with, and the continued threat of, its neighbor Iran?

The administration claims that Iraq has used these weapons in the past. We've all seen the pictures that show a Kurdish woman and child frozen in death from the use of chemical weapons. But, have you ever seen these pictures juxtaposed next to pictures from Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

I suggest that one study the histories of World War I, World War II and other "regional conflicts" that the U.S. has been involved in to familiarize themselves with the use of "weapons of mass destruction."

Remember Dresden? How about Hanoi? Tripoli? Baghdad? What about the big ones-- Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (At these two locations, the U.S. killed at least 150,000 non-combatants -- mostly women and children -- in the blink of an eye. Thousands more took hours, days, weeks, or months to die.)

If Saddam is such a demon, and people are calling for war crimes charges and trials against him and his nation, why do we not hear the same cry for blood directed at those responsible for even greater amounts of "mass destruction" -- like those responsible and involved in dropping bombs on the cities mentioned above?

The truth is, the U.S. has set the standard when it comes to the stockpiling and use of weapons of mass destruction.

Hypocrisy when it comes to death of children? In Oklahoma City, it was family convenience that explained the presence of a day-care center placed between street level and the law enforcement agencies which occupied the upper floors of the building. Yet when discussion shifts to Iraq, any day-care center in a government building instantly becomes "a shield." Think about that.

(Actually, there is a difference here. The administration has admitted to knowledge of the presence of children in or near Iraqi government buildings, yet they still proceed with their plans to bomb -- saying that they cannot be held responsible if children die. There is no such proof, however, that knowledge of the presence of children existed in relation to the Oklahoma City bombing.)

When considering morality and mens rea [criminal intent] in light of these facts, I ask: Who are the true barbarians?

Yet another example of this nation's blatant hypocrisy is revealed by the polls which suggest that this nation is greatly in favor of bombing Iraq.

In this instance, the people of the nation approve of bombing government employees because they are "guilty by association" -- they are Iraqi government employees. In regard to the bombing in Oklahoma City, however, such logic is condemned.

What motivates these seemingly contradictory positions? Do people think that government workers in Iraq are any less human than those in Oklahoma City? Do they think that Iraqis don't have families who will grieve and mourn the loss of their loved ones? In this context, do people come to believe that the killing of foreigners is somehow different than the killing of Americans?

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is?

I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma."

When a U.S. plane or cruise missile is used to bring destruction to a foreign people, this nation rewards the bombers with applause and praise. What a convenient way to absolve these killers of any responsibility for the destruction they leave in their wake.

Unfortunately, the morality of killing is not so superficial. The truth is, the use of a truck, a plane, or a missile for the delivery of a weapon of mass destruction does not alter the nature of the act itself.

These are weapons of mass destruction -- and the method of delivery matters little to those on the receiving end of such weapons.

Whether you wish to admit it or not, when you approve, morally, of the bombing of foreign tartgets by the U.S. military, you are approving of acts morally equivilent to the bombing in Oklahoma City. The only difference is that this nation is not going to see any foreign casualties appear on the cover of Newsweek magazine.

It seems ironic and hypocritical that an act viciously condemned in Oklahoma City is now a "justified" response to a problem in a foreign land. Then again, the history of United States policy over the last century, when examined fully, tends to exemplify hypocrisy.

When considering the use of weapons of mass destruction against Iraq as a means to an end, it would be wise to reflect on the words of the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. His words are as true in the context of Olmstead as they are when they stand alone:
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example."

Sincerely


Timothy J. McVeigh

Copyright (c) 1998, Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc


31 posted on 10/03/2002 11:11:29 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: aculeus
KEEP THE TRUTH ALIVE!
32 posted on 10/03/2002 11:12:15 AM PDT by BossyRoofer
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To: honway
ping
33 posted on 10/03/2002 11:13:35 AM PDT by flamefront
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To: aculeus
UH oh....another OKC thread. Any bets on how long it takes to get the "tinfoil" boot by the board gods?? I just wonder why this is such a sticky subject? Hmmmm.....
39 posted on 10/03/2002 11:23:09 AM PDT by hove
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To: aculeus
Louis Freeh, are you hearing this?
61 posted on 10/03/2002 3:34:13 PM PDT by jd777
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To: aculeus
After reading through this article and thread, as well as the article posted at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/761191/posts, there is too much here to overlook.

Maybe this will finally bubble up and the story (and the implications contained within) will stop being ridiculed as tinfoil material ...

62 posted on 10/03/2002 3:41:29 PM PDT by spodefly
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To: aculeus
"On September 29, 2001, Chicago attorney David Schippers confirmed the following article’s information to Eagle Forum of Illinois’...."

If Shippers was "just about ready to let the lid off of this" why has he not done so by now? It's been over a year!

68 posted on 10/03/2002 6:12:20 PM PDT by fightu4it
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To: aculeus
Bump for later reading!
74 posted on 10/03/2002 6:54:27 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: RaceBannon; xsmommy; rintense; deport; Torie; kayak; Sungirl; GVgirl; MJY1288; Mo1; TLBSHOW; ...
ping for "If this is true..."
81 posted on 10/03/2002 11:43:49 PM PDT by VaBthang4
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To: aculeus; Yehuda; AnnaZ; Mercuria; incindiary; Dutchy; StarFan; firebrand; nutmeg; evilC; ELS; ...
major bump
88 posted on 10/04/2002 3:02:48 AM PDT by RaceBannon
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To: aculeus
Tinfoil is in short supply again. It is truly a conspiracy. Who controls the tin foil market and why?, Is the government hoarding tin foil? The truth is out there.
99 posted on 10/04/2002 6:59:21 AM PDT by FFIGHTER
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