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Living dinosaurs
abc.net.au ^
| 9/30/2002
Posted on 10/01/2002 8:32:43 AM PDT by SteveH
News in Science
News in Science 30/9/2002 Living dinosaurs
[This is the print version of story http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s687677.htm]
If we are to believe the message of a new exhibit demonstrating the evolutionary transition from dinosaurs to birds, dinosaurs are not extinct.
Four life-sized reconstructions of ferocious-looking, smart-thinking, flesh-eating feathered dinosaurs – representing 125 million-year-old missing links between dinosaurs and birds – have landed at the Australian Museum in Sydney as part of the Chinese Dinosaurs exhibition.
"The birds we see flying around our backyards are actually living dinosaurs, descendants of prehistoric beasts we all once presumed became extinct 65 million years ago," said museum director, Professor Mike Archer.
"But feathers were evolving as dinosaur attributes long before they became valuable as flight structures," he said.
"Indeed fossils uncovered in the Liaoning Province of China have provided a whole sequence of missing links in the dinosaur to bird story."
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Model of Sinornithosaurus smillenii (pronounced 'sine-or-nith-oh-saw-rus mill-en-ee-eye) made by Alan Groves working with palaeontologists Drs Walter Boles and Sue Hand.
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One of the earlier links is Sinosauropteryx prima. The creature is covered with what looks to be a fine fuzz but are really small barbs – a link between scales and feathers.
"It's a metre-long, meat-eating, ground-dwelling predator, closely related to the dinosaur in Jurassic Park II which ate the little girl on the beach," said Professor Archer.
He speculated these very early feathers were probably for insulation since this group was almost certainly warm blooded.
The Sinornithosaurus millenii (top picture) embodies a later link.
"This is a very vicious little predator about a metre long. But here the feathers are much larger – although they're not fully formed or capable of flight," said Professor Archer.
An interesting characteristic of the creature was its capacity to lift its arms over its head in a flapping motion. Professor Archer said scientists assumed its array of feathers had a purpose – to frighten predators, help capture prey, attract mates or threaten male competitors.
The next stage – the development of feathers for flight – is seen in creatures like the Archseopteryx, a smaller animal than Sinornithosaurus millenii with longer and assymetrical feathers.
While there has been some debate as to whether dinosaurs (unlike other groups of reptiles) are the ancestors of birds, Professor Archer believes since 1996 there has been no strong argument against the hypothesis.
"I don't know anyone who is still holding out on this one," he said. "Other than the creationists of course who don't want anything to be ancestral to birds."
Chinese Dinosaurs is open until February next year. The dino-bird exhibit is sponsored by The Australian Skeptics.
Anna Salleh - ABC Science Online
More Info?
British Natural History Museum Dino-Birds Exhibition
Missing link from fur to feathers – News in Science 27/4/2001
Dinosaur fossil with proto-feathers – News in Science 8/3/2001
Dinosaur-bird theory defended – News in Science 24/11/2000
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© ABC 2002 | privacy
TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: birds; crevolist; dinosaurs; evolution; paleontology
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To: PatrickHenry
"Total--only EVOLUTION"---NO competition"...your exact words!
Yes, BEAST train crashing HARDER
"losers jump upon the BEAST train"
"Come losers all onboard the BEAST train!"
Oh BEAST* train crashing LOUDER
Crash on the BEAST train
Come on crashing BEAST train
Yes, BEAST train crashing HARDER
* peace train...cat stevens
EVO train TOO!
To: PatrickHenry
Liberal disrupter alert...YOU!
To: Heartlander
Dotted lines and assumptions, this is what I was pointing out to you. You’re allowed to infer and your data is the only data that is correct. Do you see ‘this’? You claim proof all the time… You say this, Mr. Not-A-Creationist, but what's your agenda? And what's your story? My inference makes sense. You can't even say what your inference is, only what it isn't. This is Luddite behavior: cheering for the gaps, praying for ignorance.
We have been through this many times. I do not subscribe to YEC or evolution but this is based on what I consider dogma on both sides.
I am not asking you what you do not believe. I am asking you what you do believe. If you don't have a story, you don't have a horse in the race. And there no people who are militant believers in "Nobody knows anything." Ask yourself if your denials and tap-dancing are credible.
Science is merely a hobby for me…
Is this a joke? Your hobby is science?
Your posts betray militant opposition to the teaching of what we have learned so far in science. Again, why? Why do you profess one thing while doing another?
To: VadeRetro
Every once in a while you post something I can agree with. Is that a test to see if I'm reading? Placeholder bump ;^)
404
posted on
10/03/2002 7:16:03 PM PDT
by
js1138
To: Heartlander
What is a Creationist to Vade? When is a Luddite for the Lord not a creationist?
To: VadeRetro
Then you bolded several words in my text to show I wasn't making pronouncements in Biblical authoritarian terms. I was explaining a line of reasoning from evidence, after all. “Biblical authoritarian terms”? Hmmm. You keep interjecting this Creationist/Christianity thing.
Why am I doing what I'm doing? I was appalled some three years ago to see so many of my philosophical and political brethren attacking science. Conservatism can never speak to the country with such hayseed Luddites dragging about its ankles, so I initially set about to add my voice to those offsetting any likely harmful effect of the clamor of creationists on FR. It turned out to be fun and educational.
Yes… Yes I see it now! Conservatism will be destroyed if we don’t all believe in evolution. Tell the President Vade! Tell him now!
He is a Christian; he is trying to reform education. This is going to destroy our society! Evolution is the most important issue in our world!
To: VadeRetro
The Mentality of Evolution
There seems to be a cart before the horse attitude i.e. evolution has occurred, that's a fact ( it is never stated who proved this fact ), therefore we just need to twist the evidence until it fits our pre-conceptions. Of course, science is supposed to look at the evidence, and then derive the theory, but as Karl Popper admitted, the theory of evolution has never been a scientific theory due to its lack of testability, so normal scientific standards do not and have never applied to the theory of evolution. It has always been an emotional issue and not a scientific one - on all sides it must be stated in fairness. The main difference is that the worshippers of mechanistic reductionist Newtonian materialism try to pretend they are objective, when in reality most of them are not. The following extract from Phillip Johnson's Darwin on Trial puts it quite nicely:-
To: PatrickHenry
"Chandra Wickramasinghe has compared the neo-Darwinian account of evolution to saying that all of world literature came from the book of Genesis by occasional typos and paragraph swapping. The mechanism discussed here is analogous to stipulating that every text along the way was viable as literature. Such gradualistic series have not been shown to be possible in written text or computer programs. Nor have they been shown to exist in biology. If this is how new genes are supposed to evolve, the mechanism remains to be demonstrated."
To: Heartlander
Still no answer. Very odd.
What does it mean when you say you are not a creationist? What inferences are you proposing to replace all the ones you don't allow? After all, you're not a creationist.
What kind of a delaying action do you imagine you're fighting here? Why is it important to hide, tap-dance, snipe and run?
To: VadeRetro
Gone for the evening placemarker.
To: VadeRetro
I am not asking you what you do not believe. I am asking you what you do believe. If you don't have a story, you don't have a horse in the race. And there no people who are militant believers in "Nobody knows anything." Ask yourself if your denials and tap-dancing are credible. You are an agnostic. . I am a Christian. You straddle the fence with God - I straddle the fence with science. But regardless, we both know that science cannot have all the answers for our lives.
To: Heartlander
If the evidence convinced you that evolution (or the theory of common descent) was false, would your life change? Any new data will bring an advance of some sort, even if it seriously revises our picture of evolutionary change. I wish we had the next 200 year's worth of data already.
But I can tell from how you formulate the question that you have no clue--as a matter of deliberate policy, I'm sure--how much evidence is already in that evolution does occur and has occurred by one mechanism or another.
To: VadeRetro
When is a Luddite for the Lord not a creationist? You have not answered my question. Tap-dance? Projection!???
To: Heartlander
I am a Christian. This should not be the holdup, but somehow it is for some people. Science isn't going to change for you. You need to rethink your attitude toward it. Until you do, you'll be an embarrassment to conservatism before the country and the world.
To: VadeRetro
FR evo missionary trying to enlighten us poor souls...no thanks!
To: Heartlander
You have not answered my question. Tap-dance? Projection!??? Oh, now I'm not answering you questions? This is getting rich. Formulate a complete-sentence question and I'll answer it. Then tell me what you think you're doing on this thread.
To: VadeRetro
"Theory of common descent" is my only problem with evolution. It is speculation.
To: VadeRetro
Evolution makes you think your better than anything...bs!
Spare me your foolishness!
To: VadeRetro
Evolution makes you think you're better than anything...bs!
Spare me your foolishness!
To: Heartlander
"Theory of common descent" is my only problem with evolution. It is speculation. Ape-ancestry rejectionism? Tough! That's the way it happened.
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