Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 09/26/2002 3:12:45 PM PDT by Heartlander
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: Heartlander
However, the researchers calculate that it would take thousands of such cycles before the E. coli were as hardy as Deinococcus. And on Earth it would take between a million and a hundred million years to accumulate each dose, during which time the bugs would have to be dormant.

Since life originated on Earth about 3.8 billion years ago, Pavlov does not believe that there has been enough time for this resistance to evolve.

Foolish. A dose of radiation accumulated over a few days or weeks would not have the same effect as the same dose over a hundred million years. Besides, if that's all it took, all life would exhibit a similar radiation resistance; our cell line certainly reaches back hundreds of millions of years, too. The radiation resistance is most likely the by-product of another evolutionary pressure.

2 posted on 09/26/2002 3:20:34 PM PDT by Physicist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: VadeRetro; RadioAstronomer; PatrickHenry; jennyp; Gumlegs
Tough Earth bug may be from Mars

New Scientist sensationalism ping.

3 posted on 09/26/2002 3:23:19 PM PDT by Physicist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
During the first cycle just a hundredth of the lethal human dose was enough to wipe out 99.9 per cent of the bacteria, but after 44 cycles it took 50 times that initial level to kill the same proportion.

Assuming the lethal human dose was the MLD, they got the bugs closer to human survivability, but still short. I'd like to see the raw data before I'm too impressed.

The "mean lethal dose" for humans for a one-time exposure to ionizing radiation is around 300 rads (i.e. 3 Gray), that is, 50% of the humans exposed to such an absorbed dose would be expected to die within thirty days with no medical treatment. While it varies from product to product, a typical absorbed dose for the sterilization of disposable medical products (sutures, surgical kits, operating gowns, catheters, etc.) prior to their delivery to hospitals is around 25 kGy (about 40 million times more than a typical chest X-ray, and over 8,300 times more than the human mean lethal dose). An absorbed dose of around 100 Gray (0.1 kGy) is sufficient to kill most insects and parasites, as well as inhibit plant sprouting (i.e. extend the shelf life of onions, garlic, etc.). Stepping up an order of magnitude, an absorbed dose of around 1.5 kGy --> 4.5 kGy is sufficient to kill most bacterial pathogens (except spores) in foodstuffs such as poultry, beef and spices. For example, a dose of 1.5 kGy will kill about 99.5% (and a 3 kGy dose will kill about 99.99%) of the Salmonella in contaminated poultry (the majority of which is contaminated, incidentally). Similar absorbed dose levels are sufficient for eliminating the danger of bacteria such as E. Coli 0157:H7 and Campylobacter jejune. A slightly higher dose (up to 7 kGy) is allowed for frozen meat. An absorbed dose of around 10 kGy --> 45 kGy is sufficient to inactivate bacterial spores and some viruses. The more resistant spores of Clostridium botulinum (responsible for botulism) necessitate a larger absorbed dose of 30 kGy --> 60 kGy. As previously mentioned, the current required absorbed dose for eliminating the danger of anthrax spores is 56 kGy --> 112 kGy. The US legal limits (both minimum and maximum) for commercial irradiation of various foodstuffs are set forth in Title 21, Volume 3, Parts 170-199 of the Code of Federal Regulations (21CFR3).

6 posted on 09/26/2002 3:57:00 PM PDT by AndrewC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: VadeRetro; jennyp; Junior; longshadow; *crevo_list; RadioAstronomer; Scully; Piltdown_Woman; ...
To investigate how the trait might have evolved, Anatoli Pavlov and his colleagues from the Ioffe Physico-Technical Institute in St Petersburg tried to induce it in E. coli.

They blasted the bugs with enough gamma rays to kill 99.9 per cent of them, let the survivors recover, and then repeated the process. During the first cycle just a hundredth of the lethal human dose was enough to wipe out 99.9 per cent of the bacteria, but after 44 cycles it took 50 times that initial level to kill the same proportion.

Lab-induced evolution bump.

8 posted on 09/26/2002 4:22:58 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
Yasss, I have heard of theeessss bugs.
Here we caaall them deeemocratssssss.
12 posted on 09/26/2002 4:50:10 PM PDT by tet68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
could have evolved this ability ....could have traveled to Earth on pieces of rock ....dormant bugs could receive the necessary dose .

Yep.

16 posted on 09/26/2002 4:57:50 PM PDT by Tom Bombadil
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
That is the conclusion of Russian scientists who say it would take far longer than life has existed here for the bug to evolve that ability in Earth's clement conditions.

Oh, spare me! Does this guy even have a clue as to what the levels of radiation were here on the clement Earth 2 billion years ago?
21 posted on 09/26/2002 5:20:40 PM PDT by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander

Other stuff:
Spider mite upsets evolutionary theory

Haploid sexual species. Interesting.

25 posted on 09/26/2002 5:29:45 PM PDT by Nebullis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
They blasted the bugs with enough gamma rays to kill 99.9 per cent of them, let the survivors recover, and then repeated the process. During the first cycle just a hundredth of the lethal human dose was enough to wipe out 99.9 per cent of the bacteria, but after 44 cycles it took 50 times that initial level to kill the same proportion.

This doesn't prove evolution. This proves that resistance to radiation follows a lognormal distribution (or something close) within a given population. The article doesn't say anything that I see about that ability being passed on to future generations. Only that harsher treatments on the same set of microbes got diminishing results. Interesting, but it is about mortality in a population, not about whether that is passed along ot future generations. That can be hypothesized, but such a hypothesis is not supported by this data.

34 posted on 09/26/2002 5:56:06 PM PDT by TN4Liberty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
The "New Scientist" is to science what "Debka" is to truth.

--Boot

57 posted on 09/26/2002 7:20:23 PM PDT by Boot Hill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
If I eat enough of these bugs can I quit radiation treatment?
58 posted on 09/26/2002 7:24:00 PM PDT by Henchman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander; sleavelessinseattle
Arthropod ALERT! Get the magnifying glass! &;-)
69 posted on 09/27/2002 2:20:39 AM PDT by 2Trievers
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
It seems like this could be possible by leaving the microbes near a radioactive mineral deposit, maybe Uranium or Thorium. Or is this article about funding again?
70 posted on 09/27/2002 3:13:58 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
The bug was, no doubt, sent her by its father, Jurel.
81 posted on 09/27/2002 7:30:49 AM PDT by PBRSTREETGANG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
And on Earth it would take between a million and a hundred million years to accumulate each dose

Unless a colony of the bacteria happened to grow next to a natural pocket of uranium/thorium ore.

If I want sensationalistic hyperbole, I'll pick up the Weekly World News.

85 posted on 09/27/2002 12:24:50 PM PDT by steve-b
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander

86 posted on 09/27/2002 12:31:12 PM PDT by michigander
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
So we are being bombarded by radiation resistant spores of death, thanks!
89 posted on 09/27/2002 4:41:31 PM PDT by A CA Guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Heartlander
Huh ? Ever wonder why so many species of marsupial animals flourished in Australia ? Except for possums they became virtually extinct everywhere else. One possible explanation is that the hole in the Ozone layer is not as new as the enviro-wackos would have everyone believe.
90 posted on 09/27/2002 5:21:37 PM PDT by SSN558
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson