Posted on 09/25/2002 1:07:15 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
Edited on 04/13/2004 2:41:03 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Maybe I did. Maybe I didn't.
Sure, the SBA and its state and local equivalents have some assistance, financing and contracts available to Black/minority entrepreneurs that Whites cannot access. The truth is, though, it's not a lot, requires more red tape than it's worth much of the time, and provides no guarantee of long-term success. Therefore, most Black businesses get started and rolling without such help. There's no way in the world someone Black should start a business just because they can get goodies from Uncle Sugar. As a consultant to almost exclusively Black-owned businesses, I'd never advise doing that in a million years- it simply doesn't work that way, no matter how much the "angry white male" whiners think it does.
I know many entrepreneurs of all races and I know that the only ones who make it are those who work their asses off; it doesn't matter race, creed or color. Unfortunately, those people who benefit through hard work and integrity (the vast majority) are stigmatized by the preferential treatment given to a few.
I think you're successful because you did *not* take anyone elses money. Read "Millionaire Next Door" and 'The Millionaire Mind'. People who come to rely on OPM aren't nearly as successful as those that bootstrap.
From reading your post it seems you got upset because it you think that they somehow were talking about “all blacks”, or you personally, or implied that blacks are incapable of starting a business without government money. None of that is true, unless I missed something.
If you give out free money to a particular group of people to engage in an activity then more of that group will engage in that activity. That just basic economic incentives at work. It does not imply that that individuals in the group would not be capable of engaging in the activity without the government money. Being a fan of Thomas Sowell, who underestands incentives, I would expect you to agree with those citing SBA preferences as an explanation of the study's aggreage results.
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How many African American men actually get admitted to graduate school?
I did! Finished, too.
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So your answer is one? Seriously though, congratulations. But this is an example of how you take a quesion about a aggregate and make it about you, like you did with SBA preferences, and drug dealer comments. (The drug dealer comments were humor as far as I could tell, not P.C., but I don't think anyone was seriously saying drug dealers are driving the studies results, do you? Just because someone makes a joke about a sterotype does not mean they believe the stereotype. If you're upset about those jokes I will not argue that you should not be, but with particular respect to those posting about SBA prefrences you are out of line in criticizing them.)
Nothing given said in this particular article mentioned anything about the SBA. Nothing! Yet it was immediately injected into the discussion through extrapolation of "black" with "government handouts." This is my objection.
From reading your post it seems you got upset because it you think that they somehow were talking about “all blacks”, or you personally, or implied that blacks are incapable of starting a business without government money. None of that is true, unless I missed something.
Of course none of that is true. But, why all of the intellectual laziness? I'm black, they're talking about blacks, therefore I'm included in this mix even though you would not recognize me in the mall. How is that fair to those blacks in whom those thoughts do not apply? It's not.
If you give out free money to a particular group of people to engage in an activity then more of that group will engage in that activity. That just basic economic incentives at work. It does not imply that that individuals in the group would not be capable of engaging in the activity without the government money. Being a fan of Thomas Sowell, who underestands incentives, I would expect you to agree with those citing SBA preferences as an explanation of the study's aggreage results.
Well, there's no such thing as free money. You wrote, "It does not imply that that individuals in the group would not be capable of engaging in the activity without the government money." Okay, but why are the knee-jerk reactions given to the contrary? Again, this must be extrapolated because the article does not state this or even imply it. Yet the implications are given anyway.
But this is an example of how you take a quesion about a aggregate and make it about you, like you did with SBA preferences, and drug dealer comments.
Not exactly. I stated my objections to the references to the SBA when no empirical evidence was given to support such a thought. It didn't come from the actual article. But it was an immediate fallback (read: black = government).
Game recognizes game.
(The drug dealer comments were humor as far as I could tell, not P.C., but I don't think anyone was seriously saying drug dealers are driving the studies results, do you? Just because someone makes a joke about a sterotype does not mean they believe the stereotype. If you're upset about those jokes I will not argue that you should not be, but with particular respect to those posting about SBA prefrences you are out of line in criticizing them.)
Humor is in the ears and/or eyes of the individual. So it should not come as a surprise that I didn't find it humorous. I definitely despise the drug-dealing references because there are far too many black men peddling this poison.
It's like this. You see me at a clothing store with loose-fit jeans (not sagging), new Nikes, a FUBU shirt and cornrows. What's the thought? A married man with a stepson, entrpreneur, and church deacon, or a dope dealer?
Lastly, I was in no way out of line for challenging assumptions. How else did I become a conservative without challenging assumptions? I'm of the mind that a person says what he means and means what he says. All speech begins in the heart then proceeds out of the mouth. It had to be thought about beforehand. Words are powerful. Once words leave the mouth, they can't be taken in again. And I totally reject the saying that, "I didn't mean it that way." Sure you did! If you didn't mean it that way, you wouldn't have said it that way (rhetorical you, of course).
Remember, you never know who your audience truly is.
Of course. Why should that not be the case?
There are no knee-jerk reactions other than your reaction to a legitimate issue- SBA subsidies. Not one person said or implied that individual blacks are not capable of being entrepreneurs without government help. People are only trying to explain the aggregate numbers. (Someone’s post was deleted so maybe something was in that post).
Lastly, I was in no way out of line for challenging assumptions.
True, where in my opinion you are out of line is in scolding people for bringing up the subject.
Blacks could be starting business at a greater rate than whites because of:
1. Subsidies and affirmative action in contracting.
2. Employment Discrimination.
3. Cultural Factors.
Affirmative action, SBA handouts, minority set-asides in contracting, etc. are a major issues in this country and likely have a major impact on who is listed as “owner” of businesses. Would you have everyone just ignore this big elephant in our living room as we discuss the issue of why blacks more likely to be listed as entrepreneurs than are whites? I am pretty sure SBA subsidies and minority contracting would be the first things that pop in the mind of Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams while reading the article. Would that make them racist?
I have no problem if you want to logically refute the theory that SBA subsidies and affirmative action are contracting is a major factor driving the results of the study. I believe they are relevant factors, but my belief is based in part on stories over the years about people bringing a minority as a part-owner into their contracting business so they can get the minority set-asides. I am pretty sure many blacks have gotten rich this way acting as figureheads (Just as many whites get things they don't deserve like Jimmy Carter getting rich on Peanut subisides.) I have much more respect for you for doing it the old fashion way, and completely earning it.
As for the culture issue, I don’t think that is a reason for the numbers, but I am interested in your point of view. My perception is that black culture has more jealousy on average than the white community. For example, I believe a hard working black family in a black community is more likely to experience envy-educed vandalism/theft of their property and have their kids accused of “acting white” if they study hard. Is my perception wrong? This is why I think if there where no subsidies or discrimination that blacks would not be entrepreneurs at a greater rate than whites. My auto mechanic in graduate school (All grad students need a regular auto mechanic, don't they?) was a hardworking black man who I became friends with and I visited his house a couple times, and swapped computer games with his children. Part of my perception is based on people like him but part is based on TV/Movies which I recognized can be misleading. How does my perception stack up to reality as you see it?
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