Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Job market collapse has people packing
San Francisco Chronicle ^

Posted on 09/22/2002 7:21:38 AM PDT by RCW2001

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:41:01 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Jobless and broke, Bryan Clouse sits among the dwindling possessions in his studio in San Francisco's Fillmore District getting ready to leave what he once thought was a computer nerd's promised land.

In a week, the 35-year-old programmer will load up a rented SUV and say goodbye to the city that has been his home for the past nine years. He will go to live with his grandparents in Brooklyn, Mich., a tiny town of brick storefronts and clapboard houses a few hours west of Detroit. There, with no rent to worry about, he will look for work.


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: bayarea; jobmarket
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 261-277 next last
To: blueriver
Are these facts or just your own personal biased opinion that you are stating as facts? Have you ever worked in high tech? American engineers have always been the best.

These are facts. I have worked in high tech for almost 20 years. American engineers were NEVER the best. Check your history, pal.

Niether we, nor the Russians could figure out modern rocketry until we both imported GERMAN Engineers. Nuclear Power and Weapons? Pick something else. We always had outside help for our best engineering.

Who said anything about Indians anyway?

121 posted on 09/22/2002 6:25:14 PM PDT by BuddhaBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: blueriver
Then how will you solve this problem, put up tariffs, block trade, subsidize unskilled high paid American programmers, implement socialism?
122 posted on 09/22/2002 6:26:52 PM PDT by ComputationalComplexity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 120 | View Replies]

To: Red Jones
Let me be clear, I dont support H1B, but it is a reality, and isnt going away any time soon.

I dont disagree with you at all. I read your link, thanks for posting it.

123 posted on 09/22/2002 6:27:34 PM PDT by BuddhaBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: VOA
I'm sure this qualifies me as a person without class, but I'd take Los Angeles any day over the self-important atmosphere of San Francisco.

If you like LA, you've got to get out of California.
BTW, SF was a wonderful place to visit 40+ years ago.

124 posted on 09/22/2002 6:35:50 PM PDT by rightofrush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Red Jones
If not for the H1-B visa program, American companies would have been forced to raise wages for engineers, thus enticing more Americans to pursue engineering degrees and graduate school.

As it is now, American companies simply bring in cheap labor to do the work, while threatening to "move overseas" if Congress doesn't let them do this.

This is mostly a bluff, since third-world countries don't have basic infrastructure that we in America have (paid for by OUR tax dollars, BTW). Yes, it will be cheaper to pay an engineer in the third-world $20K instead of an American 3-5 times that. But there are other costs to consider. Tools and services needed to perform the work and protect the property (electricity, transportation, police, fire department, etc....) are neither widespread nor stable in third world countries.

So while the cost of labor may be less, the total cost of doing business is not necessarily lower.

Basically, H1-B is a way for greedy and corrupt globalists to profit off the American infrastracture and destroy our technological base in the process.

Notice you don't see such a program for politicians, lawyers, doctors, or teachers. Wonder why?

125 posted on 09/22/2002 6:38:20 PM PDT by Mulder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: Drango
Before anyone leaves, make sure you cast a ballot against the politicians that won't protect your job.

Outside of Pat Buchanan, who would that be?

126 posted on 09/22/2002 6:38:55 PM PDT by rightofrush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ComputationalComplexity
Then how will you solve this problem, put up tariffs, block trade, subsidize unskilled high paid American programmers, implement socialism?

Very simple solution. Stop the massive immigration "free for all" that is currently under way and do the same thing that China is doing. If you want to sell your product in China you are required to manufacture it and develop it in China. We should do the same. No one is looking out for America's interest but clearly the governments of India and China are very much looking out for there own nations interest's.

127 posted on 09/22/2002 6:40:18 PM PDT by blueriver
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 122 | View Replies]

To: RCW2001
California is going to collapse. Next is San Diego. Businesses keep closing and people keep buying 500K+ homes that are worth half that.
128 posted on 09/22/2002 6:42:50 PM PDT by Hildy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VOA
Jack in the BOx, a San Diego company is great! Why is MacDonalds failing? Can anyone remember the last commercial for MacDonalds. NO.. There is no message. Jack is back. It is a genious campaign. Plus, the only good thing left at MacDonald's were their French Fries, and now it looks like they're going to go to.
129 posted on 09/22/2002 6:45:02 PM PDT by Hildy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: blueriver
China has very low labor costs, and its educational sturcture is a bit inferior to India's when it comes to Hi tech, probably why they have almost no software industry to speak of. And if you did stop the H1B, the software companies will find loops holes, like putting skilled indian engineers in Chinese cities where the infrastructure is more developed. No, the only to re-establish dominance is through superior training and superior technology. Currently an expert software engineer can be 30 times as efficient as a newbie with our OO languages, but if the aspect based languages comes out, then the difference jumps to 100 times. The key is the produce superior talent, capable of always updating to the latest technology. When a new language comes out, its always american, it'll take years for indian institutions to master, so we must always stay ahead of them, both technologically and educationally to prevail.
130 posted on 09/22/2002 6:46:11 PM PDT by ComputationalComplexity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: ComputationalComplexity
We Americans pride ourselves for being better, more efficient, more innovative than any other nation on earth. But clearly in this case, there needs to be some seriously improvement in education, there must be more math/science in the curriculum and less liberal arts.

Amen. I was in the high tech industry for years. In the beginning, most co-workers had engineering credentials. Then, starting in the late 80's, I started seeing more workers with BA's in programming degrees- useless. Their knowledge was English, French and Fortran (or Cobol).
A few years later, the industry was awash in MBA degrees - how to tell the engineers what to do.

The H1B workers were really engineers. Not many Americans, except for the Asian-Americans, go for engineering degrees. If we can't educate more engineers, then we do need the H1B workers.

131 posted on 09/22/2002 6:48:07 PM PDT by speekinout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: painter
"At least Jack In The Box has fun commercials.", And the Best Tacos in the world!

Just FYI, Burger King is now selling tacos which taste JUST LIKE Jack In The Box tacos! Mmmmmm

132 posted on 09/22/2002 6:48:23 PM PDT by Dianna
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: BuddhaBoy
These are facts. I have worked in high tech for almost 20 years. American engineers were NEVER the best. Check your history, pal. Niether we, nor the Russians could figure out modern rocketry until we both imported GERMAN Engineers. Nuclear Power and Weapons? Pick something else. We always had outside help for our best engineering. Who said anything about Indians anyway?

Funny but we are mostly importing Indian's and Chinese and exporting jobs to India and China. Haven't seen many German H-1B's. More American bashing... If American's are as bad as you say they are why don't you go live in another country.

133 posted on 09/22/2002 6:48:45 PM PDT by blueriver
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: blueriver
"This is such an outrageous statement. You can not possibly paint the entire nation of American engineers with one brush. It is naive of you to think that ALL American engineers and college students are incompetent and unable to cut it. JUST AMERICAN BASHING AT It's BEST."

Sorry, dude, but wrong. As I said, my wife taught undergraduate and graduate-level Petroleum Engineering at a major university (and one very well-respected in the PE world, I might add). She saw students from all over the country, and all over the world pass through her and her colleagues classes--certainly enough to be a valid statstical sampling. The truth is that the Americans simply are no longer as well-prepared as the "furriners". The only "American-bashing" involved is the fact that the truth hurts.

It's not just in engineering, either. Virtually any technical field is in the same boat. I got my college education in the late sixties and early seventies (PhD chemistry), and the students today in my own area of expertise are also not as well-grounded as in past years.

My family has been on these shores since 1630, and helped found this nation--I wouldn't be "bashing" if it weren't the truth. If you choose to disbelieve it, you are naive at best, stupid at worst.

134 posted on 09/22/2002 6:49:07 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies]

To: martin_fierro
If it's any comfort, plenty of us Bay Area Conservatives have also considered leaving.</I. <|:)~

BOTH of you?

135 posted on 09/22/2002 6:50:35 PM PDT by Kozak
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Publius6961
I truly feel sorry for a lot of these repliers who have lost their jobs and careers. A lot of them are not necessarily liberals.

The rats will call this the GWB depression which is typical of their lies, despite the fact that it was happening before the sleezemeister had to leave the White HOuse.

Is Atlas shrugging in the Workers Republic of Kalifornistan?

136 posted on 09/22/2002 6:51:44 PM PDT by oldtimer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
To regain leadership in the hi-tech field, Americans have to regain their edge in training and education, there is not way around it. We'er gonna have to help ourselves in the long run here, the government can't offer anything more than a short term fix.
137 posted on 09/22/2002 6:53:00 PM PDT by ComputationalComplexity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 134 | View Replies]

To: speekinout
If we can't educate more engineers, then we do need the H1B workers.

Drop the H1B programs, and engineering salaries will rise, thus attracting more Americans to study the field.

As long as thousands of foreigners are allowed to come in and do the work, there is little incentive for Americans to invest the time and energy required for an engineering degree. If an engineer is only going to make 10% more than a business major, why study hard when you can party your tail off in college and get an easier major?

138 posted on 09/22/2002 6:54:19 PM PDT by Mulder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 131 | View Replies]

To: nanny
Now my thoughts on bringing in the high-tech foreign workers because we had no educated people - why didn't someone consider EDUCATING OUR OWN PEOPLE!! If they had to import workers, why not make it a year to year thing. How long does it take to educate someone for those jobs?

THIS POST MAKES ME SICK. I HAVE POSTED AND POSTED HERE ABOUT THE LACK OF DESIRE OF OUR YOUNG TO LEARN. AS A TEACHER, I HAVE ENDURED UNIMAGINEABLE ABUSE WHEN TRYING TO PUSH STUDENTS TO HIGH LEVELS. I HAVE NO SYMPATHY LEFT.

SOMETIMES, PEOPLE GET WHAT THEY DESERVE.

139 posted on 09/22/2002 6:55:45 PM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: ComputationalComplexity
Maybe I'm reading too much into your posts, but you sound like a CMM consultant. Good programming is chaotic, the best programmers are lazy (they reuse the most), American "level 0" code beats any Indian "level 4/5" code (e.g. OSX vs HPUX). H1B programmers are, for the most part, too rigid and formal to be creative and productive.
140 posted on 09/22/2002 6:59:47 PM PDT by palmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 122 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 261-277 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson