[palmer]

Maybe I'm reading too much into your posts, but you sound like a CMM consultant. Good programming is chaotic, the best programmers are lazy (they reuse the most), American "level 0" code beats any Indian "level 4/5" code (e.g. OSX vs HPUX). H1B programmers are, for the most part, too rigid and formal to be creative and productive.

[ComputationalComplexity]

formality is not always a bad thing. One thing that I've noticed over the years is that our programmers really neglect any sort of formal documentation of their work. Thats really my only complaint with the code(aside from poor architecture, and reusability) This may ensure their jobs for the short term, but it also hampers efficiency, the Indian engineers are really anal about documentation, they usually document every little detail of a project to death, but it helps.

[Red Jones]

I agree palmer; you understand how programming works. So do I. Some programmers are talented, some have credentials. When programmers talk about how they know 5 languages I am in awe. But I also know that the best performers in any given language will tend to focus only on that language in part because they're too lazy to learn 5 languages, in part because they feel it's a waste of time, in part because they're busy working in the one language or improving their ability in the one language. A lot of talented programmers decline to spend the time and effort to get 'certified' because they see no value in it. A lot of talented programmers didn't major in computer related stuff. A lot of talented programmers refuse to go to college if they can avoid it. A lot of them would just as soon go to the local state university even if they could get into an ivy league school. H1b is a system that allows the IT managers (who are always credentialed and without talent) and who generally hate the talented cowboys in the first place, to select from among a lot of credentialed people and thus push that talented cowboy aside. But it is the talented cowboy who made america the #1 software nation in the world by far. Government interference into markets can really screw things up. I thought the republicans knew that. H1b has taught me that they don't. I'm a talented cowboy who didn't even start in the programming trade until after I was 35 and I am 100% self-taught. I know what I'm talking about and I recognize that you understand these industry dynamics also.

Of course ideally a person should have both talent and credentials and great work ethic. Those guys are VERY valuable, but also very rare. My whole point is that h1b is screwing with the system in a way that can be very negative. Talented cowboys are being pushed out. Wages are lower yes with h1b, but it is not clear that we'll be better off with this. Talented cowboys hit home runs especially when they know they get paid a lot for it. How will lower wages hit home runs? It is home runs that create a situation where you have advantages in the market and can make wholesale reductions in the amount of work needed to be done to get the job done.